It all started with Cristiano signing for Al Nassr last year. Karim Benzema, the Real Madrid striker and one of the best on the planet currently, decided to move to Al-Ittihad. He is joined by N’Golo Kante who had injuries last season but is still a very decent player on the field.
Ruben Neves from Wolves had interest from different Premier League teams. Not long ago, every other Arsenal fan wanted Mikel to bring him to Emirates, he is such a decent midfielder that he will start in any of the PL team’s midfield bar City. He has moved to Al-Hilal, at the age of 26 for a 3 year contract, and Wolves are getting £47m for him. Chelsea has shifted Hakim Ziyech and Edouard Mendy is expected to leave too. There are rumours of Koulibaly, Mahrez, Aubameyang, Neymar and a bunch of others.
Is it any difference to Chinese Super League or MLS? In short, yes.
China turned out to be a retirement home, so did MLS (and even now, they are). Players who had spent their best days, were moving to MLS and CSL, to earn a big fat check. Kind of a ‘grab whatever you can coz it’s going to be over soon’ round. But what Saudi League has managed differently is that, they have attracted some of the best and in-their-prime players. Though, Ronaldo had a bad season by his standards at Old Trafford, he could have literally walked into any of the teams he wanted. Benzema is still a hot entity in world football. Heck, I would have loved Neves at Arsenal for that amount of money.
Mendy is a Champions League winner. Riyad Mahrez, Bernando Silva, Gundogan, who all just won a trebble at City, are all being linked to different Saudi teams. We even have rumours for one of our own, Thomas Partey. Much like others, Partey is still in his prime and had a brilliant season with us. He still has couple of good years left in him.
What Saudi League has done, is, attract the attractive ones (money helps) and build from there. Any other league like Indian Soccer League are low on budget, they can’t pay millions and though the playing condition is a bit of hostile, it’s not as much as Saudi Arabia here. It’s the bottom up approach for Indian Football. It’s the top down for Saudis. Hear me out, Ngolo Kante is rumoured to have a net worth of 23m euros after playing in one of the richest league, in one of the richest clubs in Chelsea and winning almost everything. He will earn whooping 100m euros in his 4 year contract at the Saudi club. 4 times his net worth!
Is it going to last?
I don’t know. Unlike China and US, they have money and they can keep doing it forever. The lot that’s reaching Saudi this year (and the next year) will decide how famous they get, and how much impact it will have on European Football. English football in particular is rooted enough, and might not have impact in terms of revenue and popularity locally, but there’s a bigger market share outside and Saudi league will compete with it. Some of the neutral fans are invested in players (Ronaldo, Messi e.g.) rather than the club they play for.
What can the English club do?
Nothing, they have opened the pandora box. From an owner, who spent half a billion in one season, and now wants to shift some players and recoup some of that money, has a buyer outside Europe. Players, who were sitting on bench, being paid a whooping 100k/week wages will earn 10x of that. It’s a win-win for the club and the players as of now. It won’t be long before the players whom the club wants to keep, will ask for a transfer for that 10x money. It won’t be long before it further inflates the market because you have to pay substantially more to keep your prized possession from moving to Saudi (and MLS has opened the gate too with Messi and Image/TV rights).
In my honest opinion, it’s worse that the European Super League. Either it will ruin the financials all over, or it will force clubs to go back to grassroot level of developing footballer and instilling in them the club identity over money.
Only positive? For every Neves, there’s a Lukaku.
You are welcome to disagree with what I feel, because I haven’t seen anything like this. I don’t know how it will turn out. I would be more interested in your opinion about why/why not it’s a good thing for football in general and English Premier League in particular.
Ambarish
I’m really enjoying reading and thinking about the output that you’re producing right now. To be honest, I’ve always found your views on football fascinating given the way you’ve come to Arsenal and the Gooner family via your time in London. And the quality of the debate on here continues to grow under your guardianship.
If I were your business adviser, and given what you have just written about that awful but amazingly wealthy country situated between India and the UK, I’d recommend that you take a foray into blogging/reporting about the Saudi League. You have a blank page so can chose your own angle. You might have to compromise the principles of truth and directness that you so regularly display on here but if you were to get into sports reporting and commentary there in some form, I’m certain your talents will be appreciated, not least because I’m certain they’ll want to have a major presence throughout Asia and Europe. Now, that’ll really put your work-life balance under pressure. You could maybe recruit some extra help. In essence, it could become a significant expansion opportunity. If you can’t beat them, join them! I’d be happy to discuss it more with you if you wanted to develop an idea.
But one important caveat – it cannot be at the expense of LiR my friend! 😊
Some of the stuff on here has been really perceptive. Like Tony, I’ll be going even more local if some monolithic world super league gathers pace. Watching Neville and Carragher live from Riyadh or Jeddah at 10am UK time watching Walmart Arsenal Wanderers lose to Aramco Geordie Barcodes with a late goal from 78 year old hologram Cristiano Ronaldo in 50 degree heat will never be my idea of fun. I’ll stick to the Bluebirds of Cardiff and Haverfordwest County. 🐦🐦
Seriously Ambarish give it some thought. I hate that cliché Carpe Diem (why seize a Carp?) but this could be a moment.
Killroy
When that rugby world Cup comes around in the autumn, you should look to do a bit of blogging on here as well. I don’t follow 🏉anywhere near as closely as you do but it’s interesting reading your takes.
Tony, of Saudi money only get them stars and Muslim fans, that’s still a pretty decent fan base.
In the main, much like Qatar again, the people taking issue with the Saudi regime’s morals vs their right to own football are are us in the West. Many people outside are content to have our gatekeeping of what defines authentic football culture disrupted.
Aramco Gunners vs Petrochem Marwhan Rovers holds no interest for me either but the global minority aren’t the target market apart from what they add to branding.
You can’t confuse the Saudi’s involvement with Golf (or something like Tennis for example or even the World Cup) with league football.
Golf has a tournament over a brief period of time a football league runs over 9 months.
Find me a kid who dreams of winning the Saudi Cash Cup? Find me a kid from around the who dreams of winning the FA Cup, PL, La Liga, Serie A or the CL – Millions.
Not to get into real world politics too deeply but I’m sure we all hope with what’s happening in Russia someone steps up and wins themselves the Nobel Peace Prize by putting a bullet in the back of Putin’s head.
Aitcho
It never occurred to me when writing how vast the muslim market would be.
Raptora from LG said that TL, VV, RG and Edu met to discuss how to proceed with another bid. If the meeting was anything like the meeting about what to do with Auba in ‘all or nothing’, then I’ll be surprised if we land Rice unless he demands a move to us.
Why are they meeting to reach reactive decisions? Have those people never heard of proactive negotiating with plans A, B & C if necessary?
Our business clients are industrial Thai billionaires, if we were just reactive in our meetings, we’d be laughed out their boardrooms.
We, as a club, maybe worth billions of dollars, but we are still in the dark ages when it comes to TWs. We are Del boy and Rodders still using bargain basement buying tactics compared to Bobby Axlerod and Mike Wagner of clubs who mean business and always spanks Edu’s arse making us pay way over the odds: White being the first overpriced buy who is worth a little less than what we paid for him in July 30, 2021.
A&E’s dealings in the TWs have netted us losses where we’ve even had to pay players to go all on A&E. Have the club learned nothing from their actions for the past 4 years?
Not really, not from this window’s results thus far.
From ‘G’ on LG:
‘’ ExWHUEmployee
Patreon: “We can confirm that Man City held talks with West Ham over the sale of Declan Rice but did not lodge an official bid. It was made very clear that Declan Rice really favours a move to Arsenal over the two. The main factor is Arteta.” #afc‘’
Tony
I’d be amazed if Rice’s choice of between City and Arsenal was based on wanting to play for Arteta. Staying in London etc would make more sense.
Tony
The thing that many can’t do in face to face negotiations is know when to walk away or refuse the deal.
Do this a couple of times and people know you’re are serious.
Seems, if true, Arteta is the procrastinator as he is with his in-game management. If he can’t make pressure decisions, why involve him?
Almunia
Seems those defaming me on LG are really deep butt hurt, but they are Pedro’s bending brown noses. Poor cupcakes. 🙂
Have a great weekend.
KP
If I got my dates right, the KP fam are viva Espana so enjoy the trip(s).
Marc
Totally agree. People forget other deals are out there.
Tony, I think part of the problem for us and perhaps other big teams full of angst about their respective windows is we’ve had it too easy for a while now.
PL is the cash cow and as someone alluded to earlier, clubs haven’t needed to take care of their core support when international TV rights, merch and matchday spend by tourists is where the real profits are to be found.
I’m a little concerned about the direction of travel, Gulf Arab disruption is seems to be speeding up the process of change.
It’s not inconceivable that 30 years from now Arsenal is no more relevant than Ferencvaros, Dinamo Bucharest or HSV and our kids, grandkids are joining Scandinavian football tourists on jaunts to Riyadh, Muscat or Dubia to see the big names play.
I don’t know if I’m being alarmist but the Saudis have 70 years left of petrodollars to build their brand and as global incomes rise in non Western countries there’s no real reason why they wouldn’t prefer an Al Hilal full of the best stars over an Arsenal who used to be a big deal except nostalgia of being football anoraks.
the relative silence on the transfer front today is fucking deafening…it’s high time we just put on our big boy pants and got our shit done…anytime you’ve got funds for periphery/luxury folk like Jorginho, Tross and Havertz, you GD better have the requisite funds to secure those players deemed essential for the future success of the club #phase1 #phase2 #phase3 #phase4 #phase5 (it’s so difficult to tell what exact phase we’re presently in so I decided to err of the side of caution)
it’s difficult to even imagine just how dumb Juve think those in charge at Arsenal are considering their supposed attempt to include Arthur in any potential Partey deal…they’re probably suggesting a like-for-like swap, which is why the article identified Arthur as the 34 million dollar man…surely even our duo couldn’t possibly go for what I would consider to be one of the most one-sided trades I’ve heard uttered in some time
Trvl, don’t ever change.
If only transfers were a question of simply pulling on ‘big boy pants’ I’m sure all the clubs would be doing just that. Pulling on big boy pants at the start of the window.
We’ve bought well so far and become a better team as a result which is the point so there’s no reason to think we won’t this time. Don’t get in a tizzy over stuff that hasn’t happened.
I guess, the tizzy comes from the fact we have for a few years now screamed sort the midfield and so far in the years Arteta has been in charge only Partey came and that was forced by just paying his release clause which was not to the liking of Athletico.
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So get the midfield sorted and bring in a 20+ goal striker, which has also been on the cards since Auba’s contract renewal. Therefore people get anxious when they see what needs to be done as well as where the solution is, then when nothing happens they go like WTF.
the PR machine is out in full force today with nonsense articles about why Lavia is better than Caicedo, how Rice is a top drawer finisher and how we best get rid of Partey before he misses time in January with the African Nations Cup…there’s no way in hell that these types of “articles” would emerge without some considerable urging…I feel stupidier for even acknowledging their presence…shame on me
Aitcho-only you would think that we’ve “bought well”, considering how often we’ve paid above the number for players who didn’t have another bid on the table and nickeled and dimed those who had other interested parties and left empty-handed…furthermore, if you can’t see that there’s a distinct difference between the way we conduct business and those with their respective “big boy pants” on do, you might want to see someone about that LOL
if at the close of this window we have a midfield DM duo of Lavia and Jorginho, with Havertz playing for Xhaka, and another RB option, on top of White and Tomi, this will be a failed window…this doesn’t mean that I don’t favour Havertz over Xhaka, as that should be a considerable upgrade if Kai can rediscover his Bayer form, it means that our main objective of the off-season, to reinvent our midfield position, would have failed miserably…there’s a monumental difference between addressing our positional depth and making substantive changes to our starting 11, especially knowing MA’s penchant for relying so heavily on his best 11…if the above happens it will have far more to do with the former than the latter, which could have some rather drastic consequences
Morning all
Aicho
Who knows in 70 years? Junior would be 85 and my daughter 95 with Mrs T and me being in the great gig in the sky wherever the sky is? Sad as it sounds it’s not on my concerns’ list. 🙂
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‘Figures of speech’ are really grouped worded adjectives, more facetiously directed at humour when used here. Most of us if not all here have been in business negotiations whether board level or otherwise, it doesn’t excuse the fact that we just don’t know how to strategize business, which is made infinitely more difficult if the chosen player is going to be part of a bidding war.
How do we do risk assessment because it’s not evident in the way we negotiate?
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LIR
The Art of War, Sun Tzu makes good and informative reading that I and many have used in business negotiations; perhaps Josh should get one in his Xmas Stocking. Tim Lewes should buy the board, “Who Moved The Cheese” so that their fear of change is diminished.
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Simple well used books I know, but let’s be serious here, we are dealing with KSE puppets: a solicitor, a playboy son, a contract specialist and a young inexperienced CEO who majored in our sponsorships.
A tough, knowledgeable sporting CEO with a strong CV of driving clubs to titles, VV is not or we’d be PL champions right now. Ruthless is Jack E Welch, not Vinai V or Saville Row dressed solicitors, were hated and yet revered people to learn from. The man saved General Electrics and is old hat now, but you can’t take away what he achieved. I talked to some senior suits from GE a few years ago and the culture set by Jack is still part of today’s successful GE.
We need law and contracts at transfer negotiations, as indeed we also will be using same supporting our negations in 9 days time, in Europe; however, you need an experienced, poker-player, negotiator who is impossible to read. For our company that is Mrs T as she is impossible to read when she wants to be as she knows her cut off points and as Marc rightly says when to walk away. She knows how to read the room, has an MBA and is ruthless when she needs to be. Our 20+ years together has taught us both much and made us what people here call a formidable power couple.
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Our club negotiating team needs someone naturally skilled at negotiating and we don’t because Edu is not that person. It takes years of learning and even then if you don’t have the poise then forget it. Same with poker and is why I never play.
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I’m not disparaging our team, just saying the lead negotiator needs to be a pro who has come up through the ranks of shit-shows and tough-bastards along the way sweeping them all aside in their rise to the top to be good enough for us.
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It would seem that Rice has kept his word and does want us and a team built around him, shocker that!. West Ham through David S’s decades of love affairs with the press are saying 100M and he’s yours. You know what, I’d say sorry we don’t play games, so you can have £80m or keep him.
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When David S and Karen B have finished in the toilets and make their reply, I would have paid TB £100m for Caicedo as I said in earlier posts. When I spoke to WHU next it would be to say thanks but we’ll get Rice next summer when he’s out of contract.
That’s what I imagine you were thinking TRVL when you said wear big boy pants. Pay over the odds for Caicedo and not be told what to pay for Rice. If Rice really wants us he can wait one season.
Then sweep up Lavia and Timber who is telling anyone who will listen he loves The Arsenal.
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KH I would only have paid £30 for a 1-year contract and told KH there’s a further 4 years and another £35m if he moves the needle, and we’ll pay him £5m for him to try to do so.
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I’m not saying we’ll win every time, no poker player does, but we need to seriously employ a tough negotiator and leave Del Boy to Father Todd.
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Some one like Marina G or even little young, (47) 160cm quietly spoken; Mrs T.
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As it is we have a player who has wanted us from the off and we are still getting our pants pulled down and our arses spanked by DS & KB.
All of the above and I still think Caicedo is the better option today for us.
** I know Rice has 2 years left now, but in a year Sullivan will have little leverage and zero leverage Jan TW, 2025. Alternatively, I’d get Rice to buy his contract out next summer. **
Always difficult to compare positions and situations, but at 21 I think Bolagun needs to be given his time after a decent showing in France that was similar to Saliba. He’s got some Pl experience and has an all round better game than Eddie who has had more chances than FB.
Palace is interested and we’re quoting £35m and it’s interesting they didn’t enquire about Eddie or maybe they enquired about both but were put off by Eddie’s current package. Isn’t £35m the lowest we’d accept, so why not say £47m?
For me we should keep Bolagun and KT and stop Arteta from being part of the negotiating team bar talking to the player. That’s bad enough considering how ‘flakey’ Arteta is with his motivational communal hand rubs and patting Win not very much in the end.
Tony, as I understand it, A&E identify which positions need strengthening, they then create a list of targets with the help of the scouting team. Then, once they’ve had a meeting with Lewis and Garlick et al, Lewis and Garlick do the negotiations.
Blaming Arteta for the way negotiations are done or are going isn’t reasonable – he has his say, explains how important a particular player would be to get in and then the lawyer and money men take over. Arteta is not involved in the bid strategy and deciding how far Arsenal would be willing to play.
I know you’re not as febrile as some on here about their distaste for all things Arteta and are willing to see the whole picture.
I’m hoping Grandma Rice, who clearly would prefer son and grandchild to not move up to the Northern wetlands, is outspoken about her wishes to her husband who represents her son. Fingers crossed.
I think next week could be monumental in getting our squad seriously competitive. A midfield of Havertz/ Rice or Rice/Lavia depending on opposition with Odegaard up top looks formidable. Like the height Havertz and Rice would offer on set pieces at both ends of the pitch! Timber looks a mighty prospect too!
Bob
The issue is a section of the fanbase who are less Arsenal supporters and more Arteta apologists – we sign a good player and its all down to A&E over pay / sign a bad player and others do the negotiations.
To prove my point watch the response to the Charity Shield (or whatever its called now) result? We win it and it’ll be a serious trophy against the best team in Europe, get spanked an its no more than a friendly who’s result is irrelevant.
Marc, I think you’re projecting somewhat. There are of course hard core Arteta fans just as there are hard core anti Arteta supporters but there are a significant number of the fan base whose main focus is on the team and are much less bothered about the manager.
I’d argue you that like all fan bases, we’re biased as hell. With the Community shield, if we win it (a pre season game, after all!)it’d be great to get one of over City but if we lose it, ‘it’s a meaningless Mickey Mouse game’. That’s far more significant than any righteousness from one camp or the other.
I understand why people get fixated about the manager, he’s of course incredibly important but I think you’re involved in your own pro/ anti conflict!
Bob, the press reported that it was Arteta holding things up, Rice wise, and he’s done that before because he procrastinates and pisses potential buys off(Benuida & Guimares) and we know Mikel is not good with decisions, Bob. Look at his in-game management where one needs to be quickly decisive, but Arteta is not that.
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My complaint is well documented above and I’m not singling out Arteta for criticism unfairly. ‘G’ from LG, I copied his post from a reporter and I posted it here.
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Are you suggesting RG & TL are top negotiators? I’m not complaining about their legal abilities at all, just that they can’t negotiate if you look at the last almost 4 years of ins and outs:
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Let me ask you this?
Why are we rebuilding needing at least 5 players to have a shot at the title in our, what 7th window?
Why do the majority of Arteta buys cost way over the odds?
Why do we need to sell the player we’ve recently bought?
Why are we making no profit one players?
The list goes on so I won’t bore you.
We come from different careers although I’ve seen first hand just how petulantly anal academics can be because they never left the classroom unless you’re a Harvard professor with 25 years international business experience. Seriously, Bob, S E Asia really opened up my eyes more, as the PhDs’ petty oneupmanship with each other at the universities.
I know you better and I like you so no judgement here and you know my thoughts …………….. 🙂 I could see you drive other academics mad with your ideals, though. Ideals are too easy to be labelled, so I can’t be bothered with Ideals and stick to morals and my trusty compass.
Dr’s in general run a close 2nd in banality I’ve found having used them all over the world. Though, I’d use the caveat that psychotherapists and psychologists rarely are, so I’m not being insulting, just pointing out the differences. We really like our Dr. who’s really cool and easy to work with and I have a great hand picked heart team looking after me for the last 16 years.
I fired my heart doctors from the biggest hospital here in Bangkok, not because they were bad doctors, but for overcharging. Dr’s here can charge what they like and mostly get away with it. Different worlds, Bob.
The Brits are a unique breed, Bob, that’s sadly losing their identities. I’m a happy nomad, so wherever I lay my hat, that’s my home.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muVzci6jn88
Marc, it’s not an opinion about who negotiates, it’s fact. Making it always about A&E is somewhat of a fixation.
*any players*
Tony, the question is not whether Garlick and Lewis are top negotiators or not, there CVS are very respectable but whether Arteta is involved. Listening to Arsecast with James, Gunnerblog, who works at the Athletic chatting to Arseblog, explained in detail how transfer operations work. It would never be Arteta holding up negotiations, he has identified Rice, explains how important he would be and then VV and L and G discuss budget(s) with A and E. At that point they have an agreed fee they’ll go up to. If then it goes above that, another meeting happens where Arteta would have his input again.
Blaming Arteta is a bit too agenda laden for me to ignore!
Don’t label me too much Tony, I’ve been in schools for 20 years but I had various professions, including a business in Central America for five years. I understand the criticism of an Academic who has gone from school to University to Doctorate and then remain in teaching, who lives a ‘theoretical world’ but that hasn’t been my path.
You’re mixing ‘idealism’ with rationalising, trying to see both sides of an argument. That said, I’ll admit to being biased towards Arsenal ( not Arteta).
Currently lying on my sofa, with a fan, having dropped Zac off in Hampstead Heath where he’s doing his football coaching. Just seen off my grandsons who are off to visit Legoland. It’s too hot in London today, expecting 31/32C with humidity building up! No air con for us!
Tony
“Why are we rebuilding needing at least 5 players to have a shot at the title in our, what 7th window?”
How can you rebuild a team that wasn’t the finished article? Any vaguely competent manager would be looking to improve and evolve their team at this stage. The fact terms like rebuild are used is PR management solely with the aim of giving Arteta future excuses – you can’t expect him to mount a title challenge he’s in the first year of a rebuild!