City crowned champions, Saka signed a new contract

if the thought process surrounding the whole Rice acquisition is for him to simply replace Xhaka in a more advanced role, which has been talked by various media-types, why wouldn’t we show some fucking balls and make a bold push for Bellingham instead…of course, it’s doubtful that Jude wants anything to do with our little project, but there’s no guarantee that Real’s going to meet Dortmund’s evaluation, as they have a whole host of pending squad issues…so why not, just for once, can’t we go big game hunting…our management team certainly can’t be concerned with looking foolish in the transfer market, as that ship sailed long ago

just imagining the 1 v.1 possibilities if Belingham and Caicedo joined forces with Saka, Marts and Ode makes me salivate…these are the kind game-changer moves that would instantly make us a formidable foe for any side in Europe, especially if Saliba re-ups…in fact, I would go so far as to suggest that this could not only change our organizational narrative, thus restoring our once-reverential status, but we could become a top 3 club in Europe for the foreseeabe future…most would say this was either incredibly wishful thinking or delusional banter, which speaks volumes about where we truly are as an organization

discussed NOT talked by various…

TRVL
Thanks for the tactical thinking, I hadn’t connected the De Zerbi tactical dots, so simple when you look at it; all about collective timing. As for us? We seem to have lost our way identity wise, which shouldn’t be happening nearly 4 years into the job.

I’m a fan of De Zerbi and Tony Bloom, Brighton are very lucky; they have the money and an excellent business model going forward.

By contrast we have the money but lack any kind of successful business model from our owners finance wise; we just keep borrowing against our assets.

Football identity wise? It’s all change with the new 5/6 incoming players. There’s nothing but transparency out there now because our starting line up will be 100% Arteta’s & Edu’s team with experience now.

I’ll keep an eye on Arne Slot I was impressed he didn’t just grab the Spud’s job to get to the PL. Some good young managers in the PL now, so it should get interesting in the next couple of seasons.

TRVL
Ah, you’re doing it again: talking sense. This rare and uncommonly heard breach from the educated vaults of the game seems only to apply to other clubs, particularly when we’re looking to appoint a manager. Talking sense is relegated to us posters who can see the coming train wreck from miles away and being stuck with reactive owners and board.

It’s only 2023 so perhaps in another millennium before we become proactive?

“We have to nail everything we do. Seek for excellence in everything we touch and participate. We are looking for people who can have a big impact at the club” (a direct quote from our manager)

I will be very interested to see what these words actually mean to him from an acquisitional perspective…unless he’s trying to be slick with his verbiage once again, this clearly implies that we’re going big game hunting…if so, I’ll be fucking elated…that said, one man’s “big” target is another man’s Plan C, D or F, especially with our not so dynamic duo

just once I would love if the overriding narrative, come season end, was “justifiably” focused on our accomplishments and not on the myriad of reasons why we didn’t get this trophy or that title…as for all those fans who hold a contrarian view of the situation and are actually focused on the former over the latter, ask yourself this question, why are terms like rebuild and housecleaning being bandied about when we finished in second place…I’ll tell you why, it’s because anyone with even a modicum of perceptive intelligence knows that the standings don’t properly reflect where we truly are as an organization, comparatively speaking…in fact, in the last 3 months of the season, we’ve played like a team hoping to snatch a Conference League invite in the11th hour

now I do believe that on paper we’re a much better team than our recent form suggests, but only if we don’t try to run-back the same one trick pony tactical narrative next season…of course, if we do add a couple or 3 seminal pieces in our midfield and up top, then re-up Saliba, a top 4 finish is a very real plausibility, but certainly not a given…whereas if we truly want to challenge for things, on multiple fronts, not only will we have to win the transfer season, our manager will have to finally exhibit the kind of tactical nous that’s typically required from a championship level manager

tbh I’m having some real difficulty visualizing this possibility, unless a managerial change is on the horizon…maybe we can pry DeZerbi away from BHA, instead of settling for MA’s poor man’s version, as it appears like Tets is hoping to secure Caicedo so that he can deploy him in the RB/RWB position just like the player’s former boss…why settle for the cover band when you can get the real McCoy

TVRL – you clearly think 2nd was an aberration and undeserved because Arteta is so shit but then you also have a problem with the idea that there is plenty of improvement to be made in the squad. Surely you should be happy that Arsenal are ambitious to improve. Are you so down on Arteta and Edu that you can’t see any potential improvement?

Bob – Edu for me is learning on how to do business in Europe among the different clubs. Early on he was drawn into the agent business and it looked like we had become a dumping ground of their clients. He may be excellent in South America but is learning on the job in Europe and his contacts and connections are not that of an elite Sporting Director which Arsenal deserves. Never mind the player negotiation outcome but the deal for Micky Mudflaps and the approach do get Caicedo was amateurish at best by disrespecting the clubs and it will hurt us in this summer negotiations. The clubs have Arteta and Edu’s number.

Like Edu, Arteta is also learning on the job, but he has bigger baggage. The elite status placed upon him is at best over blown and at worst a total failure. You can see the accomplishments of the other EPL manager who have managed teams this year in the league. Yes we finished 2nd but don’t you think that this has much to do with a total abject Chelsea team destroyed by their owners? Add to that an early blip by Liverpool that was corrected towards the end of the season. Where would we have been if Emery and De Zerbi would have been at Villa & Brighton from the start of the season? Arteta will NOT win manager of the year with his managerial feat this season, guaranteed if he looses against Wolves.

However, Arteta’s biggest failure is his unwillingness to learn from his mistakes, or correct a game plan when it doesn’t work using effective in game management, take the Forest example when NBC pundit Lee Dixon in frustration said “What is Arteta doing? Can’t he see his game plan doesn’t work, why does he persist?”

With those two steering AFC we will have to be content with late Wenger results but not what The Arsenal is deserving. With contract extension talks being reported in the media, like others my interest in Arsenal is waning until one of two things will happen, Arteta & Edu gone OR me being proven wrong as they will win either EPL Title of CL tournament. Feel pretty sure it will not be be the later one.

Bob-just trying to keep it real when offering up my thoughts on our squad and the manager, who, if I remember correctly, were clear title favourites for almost 2/3rds of the season then in the business end of things played like that of a middling club…that said, I did make note of the fact that I believed we were ultimately better than our late season form would suggest…unfortunately, this on paper win won’t mean jackshit come next season unless MA reinvents his managerial MO

first he needs to lure some world-class talent to the club, which really hasn’t been in his wheelhouse thus far, then he needs to coach-up his cover players to just such a level that he properly rotates, and finally he needs to hit the books and/or find someone of managerial consequence to tutor him when it comes to footballing tactics…the final 1/3rd of the season provided everyone with a blueprint for combating our Plan A and it was clear in our last outing that Plan B was amateur hour personified

so the question I would ask to you is where do you think we would be if any one of the present top 7-8 managers were in charge, considering the players MA inherited and the unprecedented financial backing he’s received (Pep, Klopp, DeZerbi, ten Hag, Howe and even the incoming Poch)…as a final note, you might want to ask our manager if he thinks it was an aberration, as he’s the one who’s been suggesting that another “rebuild” is in the cards, which is rarely if ever the sentiments of a 2nd place manager who feels his team is on the precipice of great things…Cheers

Bob
Sometimes I feel your judgements or your thoughts supporting Arteta are because you are far more deeply connected to the club than we are, and rightly so after decades of being a season ticket holder going to games with lifelong friends where, this in turn, leads to you seeing what has been good and having patience in the hope the issues will be fixed for next season.

Sometimes and I’m sure I speak for my Gooner brothers here I think we’d all love your simplicity of feelings in a very familiar lifestyle. For you and game going fans your experience is immense where it’s virtually impossible to not to be absorbed into The Arsenal at the Emirates. You see things with different emotions to us nowhere near to the ground often having to watch 720 instead of the full 1080 we’re paying for.

Not being drawn into the range of emotions felt at pitch side we, not all, but I’d say most see and feel differently about our club and more importantly; Arteta and Edu. I can take this a step further because I have almost recreated an immersive sound the sound you’d experience in the stadium and 153 inch screen is ridiculously good for HD upwards.

I can recreate stadium music sound to be the same audio as at concerts’ experience, but better visually unless you have stage close seats. This can’t be done with football unless you can bottle the emotions of 60K+ and uncork them in a room.

The emotional experience cannot be the same, we’ll never feel what you and your friends feel and because of that our views tend to be made up by logic and facts where it’s all in the small details for us because we’re emotionally drained, as opposed to game going fan mostly drawing on recent, at game experiences to relate more positively.

We’ve know each other, Bob, on the blog for a good few years now and we just see things from different perspectives regarding the club. I think this season is going to finally sort out our fractured fan base because Arteta will have to deliver now we’re offering backing financially to keep us in the CL the season after and a real season long title challenge.

Personally, I’ll judge Arteta by his stats and football identity at the end of next season with a no holds barred, tactical review in early December – I’ll include nuances and grey areas before coming to writing my thoughts here.

I’m sorry to say, but I still support my claim that Arteta will not win us a major trophy. Arteta simply doesn’t have what it takes mentally or emotionally. People who try to rule by fear are weak. Simple. Just adult bullies. So different to Pep, but Pep is more ruthless and is respected for it. Arteta’s demarcation lines are fuzzy with his non-negotiables et al.

I wouldn’t employ Arteta as a manager of anything. Team leader maybe with a first line manager over him. That’s my experience from corporate hiring and firing. As far as I can see Arteta is a modern day Moyes working with far less player budgets, and I’ve yet to see signs Arteta be any better than Moyes in winning g major trophies. The odd cup maybe.

I seriously hope I’m wrong, but last season has really just emphasized the point. Arteta ran out of ideas when he lost his staring 11. Arteta is myopic in this sense and is a follower not a leading luminary tactically. Our identity was lost with the loss of key players, and we slowly lost the plot during games.

Of course there were some brilliant games last season and some incredible artistry from our reasonable level of technical ability. There’s no disputing that and we couldn’t have finished 2nd without it. However, we also rode a lot of luck during the season of off form players and top sides – City unfashionably dropping points to let us take top spot only galvanizes that thinking.

For us we see the same mistakes over and over again where Arteta is becoming a broken record. His poor selections and over use of pets and then clueless in-game management is there for all to see. Naturally, we compare managers as we do players. Had we lost by a point to City on the last game, we would have viewed the season differently and forgot and managerial footballing misdemeanours being wrapped up emotionally with the result.

Instead, we got the result we knew would happen and happen it did. Not doom and gloom experts, just intelligent reality of who Arteta is.

Junior and I have watched De Zerbi and Brighton all season and I’ve done some reading about the man. He’s a no nonsense tough manager from what I can tell and hugely respected by his players and all at the club. From what we’ve seen De Zerbi is a well rounded manager favoured by currently the best owner of a PL club and from what I’ve read doesn’t want to leave Brighton any time soon and who would blame him?

I think the first observation now of Arteta and Edu is who they can attract to join us for next season. Playersd turning Arteta down is poor optics for Arteta and Edu.

The question after will promote plenty of debate here, Bob. I’m looking forward to next season for its kill or cure Arteta situation. I don’t mind which as long as we start winning and I don’t just mean games.

In sum, we just view things differently as our individual game experiences dictate. What ifs I hope are a think of the past for next season.

Bob-I apologize if I came off a little brash…I spoke earlier about the hypocritical nature of those leading the Arteta charge, which for me originated in the second half of the 2020-21 season…the suggestion at the time was that our second-half record was tangible proof that the “process” was working it’s magic, even though the football was rather dire and MA himself was already laying the groundwork for a possible squad building180, from a veteran-dependent squad to a much more youthful one…as such, one might logically conclude that much of what was supposedly learned during that half season was far less informative and/or predictive than some would suggest…thus the emergence of the cake and eat it too crew

now fast forward to the next two seasons, when our form in the second half dipped considerably, this year even more than last, yet not a single member of the blinders brigade spoke about how this troubling trend might be a predictive glimpse into our future under this particular manager…you would think if this “carryover” narrative was a paramount component of their blinder’s origin story that these particular details wouldn’t go completely unnoticed, unless you cared infiitely more about conveniently ignoring anything that didn’t fit your particular narrative than the best interests of the club…I don’t even know if this was a masterclass in moving the goalposts or ignoring them altogether

of course, I realize that you’re not drunk on the Kool-Aid and I likewise understand that on a results basis we’ve made improvements, but I simply can’t ignore the much more nuanced facts surrounding his 4 year tenure; most notably the sheer amount of horrifying self-serving decisions he’s made and his lack of tactical growth, both of which have been overlooked at times due in large part to the unprecedented financial backing he’s received, as is oft-times the case…as such, maybe we should be exceedingly grateful that things are better than expected, in spite of the aforementioned issues, thank him for his efforts, then bring in a legit “closer” manager before we have to face the very real possibility that what we’ve seen at the end of the last two seasons is the best we can hope for with Arteta in the catbird seat

thing*

TRVL
Well put.

One of the biggest what ifs which frequents my thinking when considering managers is what if KSE had fully backed Emery and given him £500m to rebuild the squad as well as giving him 2 years to do it? Basically, let him be the experienced manager he was and let him choose the players he needed. Isn’t that what we did with rookie Arteta? Only he’ll have had around £750m and 4+ years by next season’s end and we’ve just made the CL and won a FA cup.

Emery couldn’t have been any worse at losing the club something like £200m in player assets as Arteta has and Wenger did in his last 12 years.

Based on this season’s eye test Emery has acquitted himself well at Villa possibly getting Villa Europe Conference ahead of Spuds. An ex Arsenal manager keeping Spuds free of Europe is something I can relate to. Next season will be Emery’s settled season where it will be interesting too see if he really has improved league wise or is just a cup winning manager with consistent reasonable league form.

It’s not just about Arteta for me, it’s more about the club and the way it has been run for the last 21 years. Look at the main major moves the board and KSE made.

Keeping Wenger 12 years too long
Giving the keys to Arsenal to Wenger
Gazidis who Wenger approved and left a sinking ship.
Raul who kept the needle in reverse by using Emery as a pawn in his business dealing with the club and agents
Diamond Eye shackled by and dispensed with by Raul doing well now
Vinai V as what amounted to be Co-CEO with Raul hopelessly out of his depth against snake oil man: Raul.
Tim Lewes why not much sooner, such as pre Gazidis days?
Richard G ditto Tim Lewes for contracts?
Up til now – Zero Accountability for key management positions with no real oversight to improve.

This is just a list of the major decision making for a club worth back then around £2billion+ taken by Josh and Stan for our The Arsenal. If we were to take a deep dive into the above decisions’ costs to the club, we will find the root of the problems that still exist today.

In a word: Recruitment – too many key people who shouldn’t have been hired.

Had KSE recruited better we would have won far more than we have in the last 21 years.

Anyone see it differently?

It’s always difficult to know when someone’s learning curve, improvement is going to end, whether that’s Arteta, Odegaard, Saka or away from football. I know my football understanding only has very small signs of improving!

I would certainly accept that Arteta makes too many incorrect judgement calls to be considered an elite manager but( and this is a big but!) there is still evidence of improvement. If you focus on his weaknesses rather than his strengths you can simply say that ‘look, he doesn’t rotate enough or his in game management is not proactive enough( there are signs of improvement), we’ll never be good enough with him’.

On the other hand, if you focus on where he has clearly improved the team, our way of playing, passing between the lines, creating an end product( number of goals, wins etc) and crucially a belief from the players in his coaching then with continued improvement he can be considered elite. It must do your heads in when his name is mentioned as a target for RM for example or more significantly, there is talk of a new contract!

I would accept that if we have the TW that is being talked about, there will be no excuses for overplaying players and running out of steam at the end of the season. I imagine next season will be so much more competitive at the top. City of course will be difficult to beat but United and Liverpool will be much more involved and Chelsea will possibly improve dramatically ( hopefully not) . But I have every confidence in our team to be competitive both in PL and CL if not Arteta deserves to go.

Considering other managers, Howe gets a lot of credit but all I can say is that Newcastle were the shittiest opposition last season and I have nothing but ill will towards them and their Saudi owners- Howe allowed his team to be niggly, time wasting, annoying bastards. They got CL but the way they did it requires the same analysis and focus as how Arteta got 2nd ( and not 1st!). Sure you can say Newcastle have inferior players and Howe has been there a shorter time but sorry, their gamesmanship is shameful and that comes from the manager.

De Zerbi’s Brighton are mightily impressive. He’ll be managing a big club soon.
Klopp’s done it and got the T-shirt, doesn’t appear ‘tired’ but he’s got a few miles on his clock.
Ten Haag seems quite impressive, he’ll need a TW or two to get his players in.
Guardiola- just look at his record.
Emery – what a job he’s doing – respect to the man.
Howe – see above!

I may have missed a few others but considering those ‘candidates’ – de Zerbi is the only one who could replace Arteta but I wonder if he’ll be snapped up sooner rather than later.

Tony, you may have a point about the experience of match day football. It’s very hard for me to imagine not going so it’s hard to consider a parallel world where I’m pontificating on Arsenal from afar and not attending matches! I’ve had a ST since we went all seater (93) before then you could, for the most part, just turn up at the turnstiles! What I can say is that all my mates who regularly go to games (8), have all really enjoyed this season and share my view of Arteta. United, Bournemouth, Tottenham games spring to mind and two of those friends have gone away to the London derbies and they’ve not surprisingly have had a great time!

Maybe the prevailing view on here is the right one, maybe going to the games mean that I’m less objective. That said I watch all the away games on a screen. Who knows? It’s not an exact science which is why we all get to waffle along!

Hi Bob
Within the strict confines of Arteta’s own performance you’re right. The team has done better this season than last. But that’s a very narrow metric and there are other managers, many of whom don’t exhibit the manifold weaknesses that you acknowledge and describe in Arteta. In other words, you’re eloquently articulating a fundamental truth ie, there are better, more experienced, less error prone and more coherent managers out there, who I’m convinced would do a better job for us and save millions for the money grubbing Kroenkes through shrewder acquisitions and management of their value.

You going tomorrow? It would be great to hear your (and Marc’s) observations on the atmosphere and the reaction to players and managers. I think they should swap the round leather object for a beach version given that’s where I suspect the teams’ undernourished brains will be mentally. But hey maybe Xhaka will go studs up on Neves and Podence will stand on a box in order to spit in Odegaard’s eye. My guess is that they’ll do that thing again where the players’ children get on the pitch for the entirely cynical reason that it’ll suppress any booing.

Tony – I was struck by your comments about how owning an ST arguably brings someone closer to the team. When I got mine (in about 91 iirc) I subsequently realised that it brought an end to me naive, fanboy, Peter Hill-Wood is an idol (as if!) phase). It made me MORE critical (yes I know unlikely isn’t it) as I stupidly thought I had a bigger stake in the club and that they ought to be doing more of my bidding. Still, it all worked out in the end for most of the decade.

At football, there ought to be craic (sorry Almunia for the cultural and linguistic appropriation but no word in English gets close) AND at least occasional success. Alegria was the word in Argentina and I had loads of it there following Racing Club de Avellaneda. THE best place in the world to follow football.

Bob – it genuinely warms my heart to hear that you and your mates enjoy it so much. I had some brilliant times in and around thof and watching Arsenal away, especially in Europe (you didn’t by any chance go to Liege did you?) I now get my kicks watching the poor old Bluebirds occasionally win away behind enemy lines (ie England). It still provokes some wild reactions.

All great stuff guys all enjoyable reads.

Bob, I wouldn’t say you were less objective being at games, what I’m suggesting is different that the emotional feeling together with your 8 mates and 60k others outweighs the outcome to a lesser degree. So many emotions go into each game from in front of the tv, which are so much more intense at the Emirates. By the time you wind down, and it takes me a couple of hours before I can find sleep of any description, I think you remember less of the negative and more of the positive. Particularly if there are after game drinks and banter involved.

Hopefully, we’ll all be singing from the same Arsenal sheet as fans by the end of next season. Will be about time. 🙂

Kroenkephobe, I’ll be there. The weather is going to be sunny, I expect that everybody will be in great spirits. We’ll be meeting up for drinks before and after and regardless of the football, we’ll be having a laugh.

Went to Nayim final, Copenhagen v Galatasary, CL v Barca in Paris and SF against AM in EL – given the results in all those games, I should probably stay at home!

Tony, I agree that my match going perspective may affect my take but Marc’s view of things may be different than mine and he goes!

I find the argument that we’ve improved this season a little naïve – yes our league position is better but we’ve gone from having an 8 point lead to being a point ahead of being closer to 3rd than 1st.

This season has seen (for varying and mixed reasons) Liverpool, ManU, Chelsea and even the Spud’s have between poor and appalling seasons. Most if not all will be far better next season, the argument we’ll improve as well doesn’t cut it when their rates of improvement will be better than ours. All of this doesn’t include Newcastle who have had a season that is above expectations – they’ll spend big this summer and be a major threat next season. What I do expect with Newcastle is continual improvement until the expectations get too much and then Howe will have a wobble and be replaced by a major managerial name.

To put my views on Arsenal’s season into context – imagine tomorrows Grand Prix 15 of the front running cars are wiped out in a major crash at the first corner. Nyck de Vries goes on to win, now is he a deserved winner – yes. Does this make him an all time great F1 driver because he won at Monaco – no it was a fluke.

Bob

Certainly the emotions and reactions of being at a match put a very different context on the experience.

I come from a position of hating Arteta and I don’t enjoy it anymore – the only reason I keep going is a mix of the social aspect and knowing Arteta will eventually be gone – my guess is the crowd will turn mid season 24 / 25.

Under more normal conditions I don’t think you can beat it.

Bob

Where do you drink?

Fair point, Bob, and Marc is as strong but different in his club outlook.

I wasn’t trying to belittle your objectiveness or beliefs. Live experience is best, and I’m looking forward to seeing games when we return to Europe in a few years time.

For me it’s step by step, so first the summer TW. I’m hoping our CL presence draws the right caliber of player who is strong mentally as well as physically in wanting to win things.

Marc,’ we’ve gone from having an 8 point lead to being a point ahead of being closer to 3rd than 1st.’ I can counter with we’ve gone from 69pts to 81pts(with one game to go!). What do you want to focus on?

I am sorry that you ‘hate’ Arteta as it obviously gets in the way of your enjoyment ‘I don’t enjoy it any more’. For your sake I hope we get a manager in that you can get behind as Arteta seems to have poisoned your experience. I’m much less concerned about him – I’d prefer better but under his guidance I’ve enjoyed many games this season.

After the game I often go to Auld Shillelagh (Old sh- lay-lee) on Stoke Newington Church St or sometimes just up the road in Ryan’s Bar( if the weather is good).

Bob
Yeah, Zaragoza in the PdP. Another negative chapter of my life while in Paris. The other one was work related in the 2000s. My dearly departed Granny was a Spud and I called in to see her in Chatham on my way home in the car. She knew all about it of course, and practically made a wanker gesture in my face talking about Nayim and his ridiculous goal. Auxerre, and Torino with the travel club binge drinking Stella on the boat but my favourite was that 7-0 in Liege. A perfect day. I also saw something as rare as hen’s teeth. An Eddie McGoldrick goal. I played against EM numerous times as a kid in the Corby Sunday leagues. Magic times.

Kroenke, Eddie ‘far from steady’. I’m sure he shone in the Corby Sunday leagues but for Arsenal he was a poor man’s Limpar, Armstrong, etc

Did you get CS gassed too after that Nayim last minute miracle? Just remember not being able to leave the ground and after about 45 mins Arsenal fans were getting really angry about not being allowed out of the stadium and some started to try and climb over the closed gates at which point Les flics used CS gas. I didn’t cry when the goal went in but I did then! Was that 7-0 in that green and blue away shirt?

Banter with your Gran, I’m sure you wouldn’t change it even if you could. My dad was a Spud but he wasn’t that passionate and had the grace to let me support who I wanted to! Orient was the closest team to me growing up(Loughton), 2nd division at the time but I thankfully had good taste at 7 years old and picked Arsenal(winning the double the year before might have hit my consciousness but I can’t honestly remember).

Bob
Almunia loves Eddie McG. – I think he had a stellar career playing for Ireland, at least compared to when he played for us.

You’re going to hate me for this but I was totally unaffected by that. I had a mate who worked at ITN who had a colleague working in Paris who said he could get us 4 tickets. So we travelled more in hope then expectation in my Citroen BX – remember them? It was a wicked car that had an up and down button a bit like those cars that Mexican lads have in LA.

Expecting limited views or to be surrounded by lads from Aragon, we were actually supplied with entries and accreditation for the UEFA VIPs enclosure. The right place at the right time – I don’t think it’s ever happened since.

French hors d’oeuvres, vol au vents, snails the lot. Oh, and free, unlimited beer. We were close enough to Lennart Johanson to have kissed his ring if we hadn’t been so wrecked.

So yeah mate, you and your ruffian friends were getting literally gassed while we were getting figuratively gassed on some nice strong lagers. Hartson got an equaliser didn’t he before Nayim lobbed Seaman (fnarr fnarr). The trip back was hilarious – we bumped into Christopher Biggins at the hover port (as you do) and he kindly bought us a consolation pint.

I didn’t get to the Parma game at the Parken, mores the pity.

https://youtu.be/i6mW43iDVZY

Aah Bob! Anders Limpar. I think he was Guendouzi’ed by George. Or was Guendouzi Limpared by Tets? I was sad when he left.

He was a major and handy protagonist at the battle of Old Trafford. So much for Swedes being peace-loving neutrals eh?

He signed for us from Cremonese right? A team that sounds like a dessert.

Kroenke, kissing the ring eh! I was a big Limpar fan, will always remember when mid dribble he stopped to pull up a sock, class. A little too maverick for an overly conservative GG.

Great perspectives on display today…of course it’s oftentimes difficult to participate in real time due to the obvious time difference…I always find it intriguing to examine how one’s personal investment, visa vie the ongoing expenditure of buying seasons tickets, has on one’s personal perspective…during Wenger’s latter years I always argued that it logically behooved the customer to protect their investment by throwing their full support behind the manager, as otherwise it seemed that their continued fiscal behaviour was foolishly conceived…then I conversated with several holders who held a completely opposing view, as they felt that their investment likely made them more critical and as such they never shied away from showing their displeasure whenever the opportunity arose…ultimately it’s a mixed bag gig, but I would still say that the library-like environment, as the Emirates took on a more corporate, watercress eating ambience, lent itself far more to the acquiescing types than those within the later category

regardless, only a fanbase who allowed Wenger to patrol the sidelines a decade or so longer than logic would have suggested, would once again doubledown on another cult of personality narrative with someone who had very little real connection to the club, at least not during the decade that mattered, and who had no real CV to speak of…this is simply the logical outgrowth of the ridiculous “underdog” mindset that has permeated our once-hallowed halls ever since Wenger propogated the ludicrous notion that we were the best “little” big club in the footballing world so as to justify his latter days failings

In Lennart’s Scandiwegian dreams…. A colossus, but I reckon I out drank him that night.

GG most certainly was a small ‘c’ conservative (except when it came to Pal Lydersen and his agent (Rune Hauge).

I’ve got half an eye on the Cov-Hatters game. BNC playing at RB. Makes me wonder if it’s worth prettying up Tomiyasu to see if we can sell him in that funny period between the start of the season and the end of the TW in order to give him a go in the first team squad. I suppose it comes down to whether his rating is higher than Walters’s. Oh and we also need a manager that trusts young players of course.

Luton… Yuck! We’re you at wemberlee in 87? One of my Arsenal nadirs.

TRVL
I think a shit load of fans gave up their STs during the late wengassic era (like geological eras of the past, it went on far too long) . Every week in the online Gooner, someone would bare their soul and declare that enough was enough.

I’m lucky to never have to travel far to get to home games. If I’d a tube and a train to get home I might have struggled at times to keep my ST.

My first final was GG’s first win the year before the Luton debacle the following year, when I was unfortunately present!

El Pel, Charlie Nicholas and Ian Allison. That one was a really important win which kind of set the table for 89 in my opinion. Notwithstanding Luton of course.

I see Herb was trying to get some of the mouth breathers on LG to recognise 26 May anniversary yesterday no avail except Andy 1886 who’s also of our vintage. I tend to think too many football fans think their team’s history began when they first decided to support them. US based Gooners in particular appear to have little interest/knowledge of our past and it seldom seems to enter paranoid Pedro’s consciousness.

Fair point about historic perspective. A whole generation of Arsenal fans were essentially spoilt by Wenger’s first 10 years and the entitlement became grotesque at times. I remember my Great Uncle Tom, born in the 1890s said to me at a family party in the mid 70s, ‘ Don’t worry about the Arsenal, they were the top club in the 30s and they’d return to the top before long’. It was a long wait to 1989!

It’s why I struggle to understand any real dissatisfaction with our second placed finish this season. Despite the silly points we dropped at the end of the season, beating a City team which goes on ridiculous winning runs was always a massive ask. Best of the rest, even with some top teams underperforming, is not to be sniffed at. Particularly since we can expect room for improvement from a young team, a still learning manager(!) and a healthy predicted net spend, with CL participation to hopefully enjoy.

I can totally accept “improvement” narratives that are predicated on youth and/or finanical related variables, as those are rather commonplace stumbling blocks in any professional sporting realm…in fact, I was originally convinced that Arteta was being brought in to orchestrate a more youth-oriented rebuild, thus allowing the coach and his squad to grow together while simultaneously enabling the existing frugal narrative to continue accordingly…the one variable that I can’t come to terms with, in this particular equation, is the whole “still learning manager” gig, as that’s either a continuance of the failed Wengerian latter days model or a big club foolishly and/or selfishly acting like a “little” club once again…keeping in mind, that before MA we brought in a very experienced and system-based coach, yet gave him a fraction of the funds and no say whatsoever when it came to personnel…go figure…only at Arsenal

” a still learning manager”

OK so can someone tell me when the training bra comes off and we actually something tangible?

When non stop excuses just aren’t good enough?

When spending a huge amount of money is enough?

TVRL- I’m slightly pissed but your recent post looks like an attempt to include as many multisyllabic words in one paragraph as is humanely possible(see what I did there?. I get it, you don’t rate Arteta…..

Marc …..ditto

‘Something tangible’- can you not see an improvement? Goals, points, patterns of play, optimism in the fan base. Are you so down on Arteta that all of the improvements are to be ignored? Sorry to be aggressive(booze talking)but really, take a couple of steps back from your antagonism and objectively consider where we are now to where we were. We finished, even with a massive drop off, in a clear second place to a team that by most judges are the best team in Europe. Are your standards so high to declare so righteously that this is a fundamental failure in leadership? Come on, surely you need to take a reality check. Peace and love…I’m out.

Morning all
Very short one only to say last game tonight and having looked though the result scores and remembering what I can or really want to I’ll say to people I talk in the future that this season was one of what could have been……

Arteta has 2nd in his locker now, which is an achievement in itself considering he stuck to his starters. What could have been is Arteta’s to learn from if that’s possible having repeated last season’s squad management mistakes.

Bob I’ll accept your list of improvements because they happened and can’t be denied as well as being enjoyed. This leads me to conclude that Arteta is a decent coach, but poor manager and more importantly poor man manager is where Arteta has his failings. I’d say Mikel has trust issues which is why he kept to such a small number of players to get through the season.

Mikel isn’t a proponent of the type of player who is average in training but shines radiantly in games. for me it shows Mikel’s thought process rigidity.

We can and should say that Mikel Arteta and back team have brought us back into Europe – a year too late mind, but CL it is next season and that also is a big step forward towards new glory days.

However, let’s not kid ourselves we didn’t know the script for the ending which could easily played out differently but for the mistakes.

I’ll happily wait for the good & tough pre season that awaits and new season in August. The amount of hope I’ll be taking with me into next season all depends on who we buy and how Mikel lines us up with the new additions.

Out with the old and in with the new.

Tony, as you say, Arteta does show a rigidity in approach, some of those fixed ideas can lead to cohesion as the players understand their roles but on selection not so beneficial!

I absolutely take your point about him being a good coach and a less good manager. There are times on the touchline I want an intervention from one of his right hand men to say ‘ let’s change this now, we need to try and affect the momentum in the game’, as Arteta seems lost in the moment.

Bob

You are afflicted with that most terrible of conditions – you’re reasonable. The very fact that you’re reasonable means that you won’t even understand why that’s an issue.

If you’re reasonable then “we finished 2nd that’s better than 3rd” when we should have finished 1st.

If you’re reasonable “we’ve seen a progression in points etc” when the full facts tell you a hatful of teams all had poor seasons and finished with a much lower points tally than they’d usually pick up – this also means we picked up points from them that gives us a false historic points tally.

No one would say Leicester didn’t deserve to win the PL in 2016 but at the same time no one would say 2016 is representative of a normal season.

Unreasonable people drive change in the world and achieve what reasonable people said couldn’t / wouldn’t be done.