The Last Dance

Tony

I think this is where Arteta’s going to get himself in trouble – Havertz, Rice, Saka, new striker and Ode are all going to be part of the “undroppables” some because of performance some because Arteta’s dropped a load of cash on them.

It doesn’t lead to a balanced system any way you put them together.

KP-I get your points, but I think his numbers flatter to deceive, at least in several regards…he only potted once against a top 6 side, failed to convert any of his several first-half chances against Villa, which some say ultimately cost us the title, and was entirely invisible, from an offensive perspective, against both City and Bayern, when it mattered most…of course, he’s great at finding the back of the net for our 4th goal of 5 against relatively putrid sides, but he doesn’t raise our level of play against the opponents that truly matter…it reminded me a bit of Dortmund yesterday against Real, when they carved out some grade A chances in the first half, but simply lacked the quality that’s oft-time required against the best sides

now if you want someone with length, who can help with the high press, do a decent enough job coming back defensively and flop about like a clown at times, which might secure us the odd set piece or penalty, then he’s your man, but if you’re looking for someone who can create their own opportunities, score from distance at times, clinically finish when chances are at a premium and/or make those around him better simply by his mere presence on the pitch, you will be sadly disappointed…of course, I wouldn’t be saying any of this if the Havertz of today looked like the more polished version of his former Bundesliga self, but that Kai only showed up once this season, when he assisted on a Saka tally, by providing a top shelf stretch pass, and likewise scored against a rather game Spurs side…other than that his output has been at best pedestrian, albeit he didn’t cheat us with his efforts

as to that last point, there’s certainly nothing wrong with having those who’re willing to put in a workmanlike effort on most every night, but that alone doesn’t make you a viable Striker for a side looking to be a top-top club…now personally I could see him playing the 8, but only in the way he was deployed for a few brief weeks in and around the time of the Villa match, when he was much more direct in his attacking runs and was splitting opposing defences who were slanting their coverages into wider spaces…if he could have actually finished even a few of the chances he was gifted in those matches we might have avoided our present Striker quandary

the obvious other issue with him being deployed as the 8, is that it would likely put MA in an awkward position…it’s clear that he gave Rice assurances about his final third pursuits and if Havertz was making more vertical runs, that would likely mean far less opportunities for our DM to go forward, as that would leave us too exposed for MA’s liking…now if Timber is going to be inverted on the left, you might get away with it, as most consider him to be a far better defensive player than Zinchenko, but the amount of times you activate Rice would likely have more to do with the opposition and/or the scoreline

ironically, for all the ways in which MA has tried to mimic his former boss, he decided to potential die on this positional hill…after all, Pep had his most successful season, title-wise, after he brought in arguably the best Striker in the world, Haaland, and secured his only treble thus far at City

KP-on a side note, did you hear about the survey by a German public broadcaster who asked participants if they would prefer a more white national squad…Naglesmann did the right thing and ripped them publicly for such a “racist” undertaking…btw 21% answered in the affirmative

Tony-I’m slightly concerned by Havertz’s public campaign for the starting Striker job, as I can see this as a ploy by both he and MA to both galvanize support for Kai and to likewise better understand how the fanbase might react if we didn’t purchase a Striker this summer…it’s clear that MA has exerted a lot of energy trying to convince anyone who would listen that his the fees and wages exhausted on Havertz were justified, so this could be perceived as a logical extension of that year-long campaign…I can only hope that enough people respond in a more negative fashion so that we don’t totally abandon our far more logical Striker pursuits

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/02/everton-send-message-of-support-to-seriously-ill-kevin-campbell

This is sad and shocking. I have a lot of time for Kevin Campbell who was one of the unsung heroes of our team in the 90s. Let’s all hope he pulls through. C’mon Super Kev!

“failed to convert any of his several first-half chances against Villa, which some say ultimately cost us the title”

The some in that comment are anyone who can count etc!

Just as a benchmark for Havertz Solanke got 19 for Bournemouth in the league this season. To be our first choice striker Havertz would have to do this as a minimum.

TRVL

If Arteta choses and by that I mean makes a conscious decision to not buy a striker he won’t have anywhere to hide when it doesn’t work out.

Marc-I wouldn’t be that surprised if he found a way to reach that mark in the present day 2 or 3 side top-heavy PL, where most have adopted a far more “analytical” approach to their respective seasons…by this I simply mean that it’s a far more regular occurence nowadays that teams might conserve their energy and/or not field their best squad against top sides, as the numbers have instructed them that it’s in their best interest to save themselves for those matches that are considered far more winnable…as such, goals are generally there for the taking in many of these functional lay-up fixtures

problem is that won’t always be the case at the business end of the season, especially when the stakes are raised on occasion, as teams are fighting for European places or trying to stave off relegation…as we witnessed last season, we couldn’t manufacture goals with the same relative ease, even when we were clearly the much better side, which is likewise why City somehow ended the season tied with us on goal differential…so when it’s a fine margins affair, at the CL or PL level, the side with the least amount of quality finishing will typically come up short…just like with Dortmund, who came up on the losing end of a match they dominated for much of the first 70+ minutes because they were facing a Real side who had match-winning potential all over the fucking pitch

Of the two fuckers left that supported the ESL, Brokelona is done and dusted. So there is something to be said for hoping City will put the hurt on Perez. May they royally fuck up next season.

TRVL/Marc
All important points if we are to win the title next season. The press today are saying Osimhen said he is expecting a bid from us.

KP
Read the Keving Campell news this morning and hoping he can recover. A great unsung hero.

Loved the guy up top for us:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uldf_lHJ8bo

Otherwise very little news to read?

Tony-there’s some rumours making the rounds that claim MA’s new contract will make him the highest paid manager in the PL, which means it will be above Pep’s 18+M/yr deal…sad if true

TRVL
For a manager that has won nothing? I’m lost for words…….

Seems the press are quiet on Sesko since we allegedly bid £45m. Now we are going to offer Napoli ESR & Tomi for Osinhem?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1UnAsJolsU

I’d rather Palmer or Eze as they are PL ready and I feel have better ceilings.

TRVL what do you think? KP, Norg and Marc? Kilroy do you have any other thoughts?

Tony-as for Sesko, not sure if we’ve actually made a formal bid, but I believe we’ve spoken with his people and come to some sort of contractual understanding…that said, this is a rather commonplace practice, so it could be possible that they’ve done likewise with other interested parties too…I’m still not totally convinced that we’re actually going after a Striker, especially after Havertz’s latest interview, as he wouldn’t be doing that sort of “talking out of school” shit if he weren’t given the okay by his liege lord

I’ve likewise read several rumours involving Osimhen…most seem to revolve around two rumours: (1) that he’s convinced that we’re going to make a strong push for him and (2) that Napoli have some interest in both Tomi and ESR…the former reeks like agent-based banter, as Osimhen wants to get the fuck out of Dodge before Conte arrives…not to mention his value has taken a bit of a hit after a less than stellar season, plus he’s having another surgical procedure this off-season…regardless, I would gladly give them both players for Osimhen, but that’s certainly not in the cards, as they would want both players plus another 60+M…btw Napoli are typically horrible when it comes to negotiating tranfers, as DeLaurentiis is a bit of a miserly prick

as for the two players you mentioned, Palmer isn’t going anywhere after the season he just had, plus the two best positions for him are currently occupied by Saka and Ode, but Eze is a different proposition altogether…he’s not nearly as established, so he might accept a multi-positional cover role, for the right price…he could be deployed as a CAM or out wide on either side…that said, I’m not sure that Palace is going to break up the band, as there has been ample chatter about them not only keeping all their younger pieces, but likewise adding to the mix over the summer…once Roy stepped aside they were one of the most exciting teams in the PL, so they might run things back unless someone blows them away with an offer

Players moving from one premiership club to another in the same league will, I believe become rarer unless the selling club is in deep shit or has been relegated. Players like playing so getting splinters in their bum at a purchasing club is not the desire. Players from outside of England usually have the incentive of a more lucrative contract and playing in the best league. Now middle of the table teams such as Palace, Fulham, Brighton & Bournemouth in past would lose their rising stars when the top clubs came calling but wage deals at these clubs have improved and the choice of playing every week or sitting on the bench is a deciding factor.
Players from other clubs in England all know what is happening at AFC.

TRVL
Thanks for your thoughts. I wonder if Osinhem is Auba 2.0 not really goal scoring wise but he looks a handful with an ego to match.

Wishful thinking with Palmer and Watkins, but I’d break the bank for Eze and then bak would be around 70m? Havertz price range or slightly above. Could we send Eddie the other way with Reis?

Eze or Havertz? Rhetorical question.

Eze as 8? Game changer for me. I think he’s the missing piece and we don’t need a striker, just add a LB.

Can you imagine Eze with Marts/Tross on the left with a pacy your LB overlapping? We wouldn’t;t be one way traffic down the right and it would also Saka to drift in to where he’s most dangerous.

With Eze completing the LAMF the 9 would get so many chances Havertz would be tripping over goals.

That would make me happy.

Norg
We need to be better in the TW and we’re not. The Rice debacle was mostly Rice being kind to west ham and not demanding a move. I’d have loved to see the porn king selling Rice for 75M. The pictures would have been golden.

Tony-it might have been a slight exaggeration on my part when I suggested that it would take ESR,Tomi and 60M to get Osimhen, but that would depend on how much Napoli truly valued ESR, as he’s the wild card figure in any such equation…I still don’t understand why we don’t target Theo or Davies, then shift into a 3-4-3, after all we have the personnel to be a very dominant side within that tactical scheme…the only player who doesn’t fit that formation is good ole Havertz

just think, we could have a back 3 of White, Saliba and Gabs, which would allow White to return to his more natural position, then have a midfield diamond, with Rice at the base, Ode more centrally located, Timber on one side and either Theo or Davies on the left, and a up top 3 of Saka, Sesko/Osimhen and Marts…I believe with that lineup, if we likewise added Eze and Fofana, we would become the favourites to win the PL and the 1B favourite to win the CL, with Real being the obvious top choice…Sesko 55M, Davies 60M, Fofana 30M and Eze 50M, which considering our outgoing players would be a substantially lower window spend than last season

TRVL
ESR is certainly an unknown. Clubs will not want to pay more than £30M even if there is a queue forming. His stated (by the club) injuries will keep the price down and Emile can negotiate a better signing on fee.
Eddie will be roughly the same price – nothing like the figures quoted on LG a few months ago. Zinnie now looks a cert for Bayern.

Transfer business will be slow for a while with the Euro’s coming up might as well kick back and enjoy and not think about what new ways is Arteta going to find to overcomplicate things / shoehorn players he’s bought into the team because he can’t look more than 15 seconds into the future.

Marc-generally I would agree with your “slow” window assessment, as that’s traditionally been the case when the Euros or the WC is on the docket, but I think it might be a little different this year, as more players(agents) and teams appear to be pushing for things to get sorted prior to the start of their respective matches…now this could be diificult, as both the window and the Euros start on the same day, but if you’ve got your shit together you can deal with all the contractual formalities long before that date…not to mention, another motivating force for teams to get their business done early will be their fear that player’s values could escalate greatly during the tournament, like what transpired at the last WC

actually I think the bigger problem is all the FFP/PSR rules and regs, as we witnessed in the last window, which set records for the lack of spending…so for those teams who need to sell before buying, this could be a long fucking summer

as for your concerns about MA “overcomplicating” matters, I couldn’t agree more, which is why I felt the 3-4-3 would work so well for us, as it would have seen some of MA’s more expensive purchases being deployed in their best respective positions

“I think our focus has to be with what we have already in house. How can we be better? There are margins and there are players that can still develop and be better and that’s the objective that we have”

Let’s hope this above quote by MA yesterday is utter bullshit or we could be in for a rude awakening hext season…of course it won’t be major drop-off, considering all the managerial maneuvering up top, but it could mean that being the bridesmaid for a 3rd time running is our PL ceiling and that we will likely get bounced out of the CL even earlier

TRVL

I did work out our points tally from the matches against ManU, Liverpool, Chelsea, City, the Spud’s etc from last season and to be honest can’t be bothered to go through it again but it was very very good and I can’t see us repeating it this coming season.

The only team where we had a pair of results that could / should be improved is against Villa but for any points gained we’re just as likely to drop some elsewhere.

Actually the biggest impact on next season could be City players easing off knowing Pep’s leaving come seasons end – the FFP case against them will end up in the courts and drag on for an age unless the PL has some serious fangs and balls.

Marc-I do remember your earlier post regarding our substantial point return against the teams you’ve mentioned above and I do agree that it will be difficult to replicate that feat…my bigger concern is that if we really want to be a European powerhouse we can’t rest on our laurels, like we did during Wenger’s latter reign, unless the whole plan is to simply save our monies and hope that Pep leaves City next summer…even so, that doesn’t guarantee us jackshit, as there’s a handful of other sides that could figure their respective shit out, while we’re twiddling our thumbs, and wreak havoc on our post-Pep plans

TRVL
I’d be happy with the window you suggest and we’ve both been banging the back 3 drum for a long time. Probably 2+ seasons.

I said yesterday ad I’ll reiterate I feel Eze is the missing piece to winning a trophy at 8. Rice Ode Eze midfield is, in my view, golden. The service will be non stop from both side as it was in the Invincible days.

If we added your left suggestions even better. If we only bought one player? I hope it is Eze.

Marc
I agree the Euros is going to make the TW its usually difficult self, which we make infinitely more difficult with our procrastinations. Why the fcuk we can’t just tie our business up instead of playing the TW games, I have no idea. Were there long, protracted Mbappe talks with Madrid?

Make the player want us and the club will fold.

It’s a time honored thing and the way to get any business done. We have the leverage and Palace need the money. We’ve been there before, but Parish will want to improve, and say £65m for Eze helps Palace do it. So, get Eze to put in a transfer request and get it done before the Euros.

Or get Eze to buy his £39m contract out.

“Eberech Eze signed a 5 year , $7,800,000 contract with the Crystal Palace, including an average annual salary of $1,560,000. In 2024, Eze will earn a base salary of $5,200,000, while carrying a cap hit of $5,200,000. Source: EPL contract specifics generally collected from verified reports.”

There is always a way to get business done if you really need it done and have the leverage. We don’t seem to have a team in Garlick & Lewes who can get things done quickly. Although our contracts seem to be much improved with sell on % et al.

Norg
I agree but think we’ll get £30m to £40m for ESR. It should be £50+ or Havertz’s fee level.

Another tanking of a player’s worth. ESR last start earnt him MOTM and a seat back on the bench. Go figure.

The name of the day is Viktor Tsygankov, a 26 year old Ukrainian right winger with Girona(La Liga)…prior to that he played 6+ seasons with Kyiv, where those in the “know” were convinced he was destined for greater things…that said, his first gig abroad took considerably longer than was first thought…if you don’t know the player in question, except for having a quick looksee at his “transfermarkt” bio, you might be under the impression that he could be effectively deployed in multiple positions, but that would involve some serious stretching of the truth…while at Girona, he had 6 rather unproductive appearances as a CAM, with his remaining 39 coming on the right, whereas at Kyiv he had 188 starts on the right, 10 in the midfield, and 28 on the left…now if you just looked at the raw data without the requisite context you would see his rather impressive record on the left, as he potted 13 goals and added 9 assists in 20+ outings, but when you look a little deeper, a different picture emerges, as these appearances were spread evenly over a 7 year period (a couple per year tops)

so one could logically ask why wasn’t he deployed there more often and why didn’t Girona play him on the left even once…well the answer is rather simple, this is a left-foot dominant player, who wants to always cut inside for the sole purpose of shooting, like a poor man’s Robben, and who’s likewise a set piece specialist, so many of his left-sided tallies didn’t actually come from open play…furthermore, those who’ve analyzed this player over the years have consistently said the exact same things: “he’s a set-piece specialist that also excels as a counter-attacking threat, but struggles attacking low blocks, with his short intricate passing a key weakness”…now does this sound like a good fit for a manager who, more often than not, deploys a possession-based system, which requires us to constantly face low blocks, and who seems to be deathly allergic to countering with pace

now if this is some sort of depth piece addition on the relative cheap, as he’s currently valued at around 30M, I guess I get the play, especially considering the fact that that we don’t currently employ a set piece specialist or shoot near enough from distance, but it has the feels of a Vieira 2.0 half measure hire…so even though he’s clearly more experienced than our Portuguese flop, so he should handle the rigours of fhe PL vastly better, I can’t help but think that, unless we’re changing our tactics, he’s another square peg project…sorry but we don’t need a Lucas Perez reboot, we need top-top readymade recruits…hope I’m wrong, but to me he’s simply one of several players from this vastly overachieving La Liga side that are creating some buzz nowadays,…just not sure of it’s justified or frugal wishful thinking

Looks like City are looking to counter the PL case against them by starting to pull at the FFP threads – I’m not sure the owner understands how our mentality works and I don’t think Arsenal, ManU, Liverpool, Spuddies, Villa, Chelsea etc etc are going to give up and let City and Newcastle turn the PL into who bought the trophy this year.

Marc
City have bottomless pockets and their lawyers are top class. They will fight and fight again just to achieve postponement. The PL League has funding as much as the other clubs are prepared to gamble – a game of poker anyone?

NORG

The PL sets its rules and members have to follow them – the rules in place have been agreed by City. If they’re not careful they could see the major clubs threaten to break away and invite the other dozen odd teams and leave City to rot.

NORG

The PL sets its rules and members have to follow them – the rules in place have been agreed by City. If they’re not careful they could see the major clubs threaten to break away and invite the other dozen odd teams and leave City to rot.

I’m not sure they’d be too many tears spilt.

Not sure how that posted twice?

Marc

As nothing is out in the open we can only surmise the PL claims and the City counter claims. City will be employing every tactic in the book and now a counter claim. The legal cost will be huge for both parties.

I think the Saudies have a different agenda and will not be ruffling too many feathers at this time. They are playing a long game – ultimately the ESL is the prize they want.

Looks like the clubs bar one have agreed to keep VAR, so I expect Wenger’s offside offering rushed into being.

TRVL
Thanks the Viktor Tsygankov post. I’ve neglected the press recently mostly so I don’t get triggered the way silly season can and does do. I really don’t want to read about El B’s mega deal. Bacary S was urging El B to sign da ting. I get the feeling there is this unfounded but collective feeling that next season is when El B brings home the bacon and starts to ascend to Pepe’s lofty heights of football saintdom.

I beg to differ. What are our expectations for next season lads?

Though, I though our Gabs was dicing with death in being quoted as say he would leave us in a heartbeat if the Corinthians came calling.

I got to thinking is this a reiteration from beginning last season when El B decided he wanted to sell the big Loon. Maybe last season Gabs agent was testing the Brazilian shores for Gabs, and El B’s spies earnt their arse licking crust.

Has Gabs agent repeated the previous maneuver and now the press has picked up on it or is Gabs paving the way to move?

We’ll know if a “Gabs for sale” rumors appears soon.

I only have one question: “Do we really know who we want?”

TRVL
Your boy Arne Slot looks like his first signing could be Federico Chiesa. He will slot in nicely. Great player.

Took from Mirror sport but the story is everywhere, what are your thoughts on Isak?

“Arsenal are keen to sign new striker and while RB Leipzig’s Benjamin Sesko has already said yes to what could be a £55million move to the Emirates, Newcastle talisman Alexander Isak is also on their radar.”

Norg
You got any thoughts on the Gab’s noise and Isak?

Tony

Gabs is a Gasper ( and Per) signing. Big Per wanted him and Gasper did the deal – he is not an El B signing and therefore can be discarded – and he was but it proved to be a mistake. Gabs has made the statement and he probably knows the outcome. No surprises if he is in Brazil before the start of next season. ESR made the mistake of praising Ozil. He had extra training with Ozil (Not condoned by El B). I believe Isak is happy at Newcastle. I have a funny feeling about Saka – no way is he going now but if things do not work out this coming season – we win something! – he will seek a new club to win something. Saliba has a desire to play for RM – 12months time could be crunch time.

Spurs are a venal, cheap and nasty club of cunts aren’t they? They have decided to stop offering senior fans a 25 percent discount on their season tickets this coming season.

These old codgers are the only links Spurs have with the past when they had a modicum of success. In 1961. 63 barren and sad years without meaningful success.

You think of the money sloshing around in football and Levy and his cunty colleagues decide to victimise their oldest and most loyal fans. Fucking shit bags. They’ve probably got data that suggests the over 60s don’t spend as much as younger ‘customers’ in the club shop and the cheese room.

That said, Kroenke, Henry and the Glazers will be watching closely to see if it helps the make a few extra quid, ready to copy them next season. Fucking despicable decision although geriatric spuds probably deserve it.

Kroenke

One of the guys I go with has been a season ticket holder since the early 80’s and one of his favourite comments is “When I first started going I was the average fan, 40 years later and I’m still the average fan”.

Going to a PL match is bloody expensive when you boil it down. I pay for my ST in a lump sum you pay it and forget about it so a match day is £12 – £15 quid travel plus beer money and maybe a bite to eat.

You turn that into the full cost: average ticket (B match) £55 ish, travel £12 – £15, say £25 on a few beers and a couple of bottles of water in the stadium and you’ve done best part of £100 and that’s without eating. Start having a drink in the stadium or food and drink and you’re adding a minimum of £15.

If you loose the connection to the past you also break the link to new fans being introduced to going.

KP
As only Levy does. But, its Spurs, so let the spuds hate their club’s machinations and Levy.

On a human point this is for Levy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26ClGxCylSM

I mean it applies to all Spuds but more to Levy.

Marc
I guessed the day out for a game would be around £100 depending on the game.

Around 25 games a season is still £2500; it’s not a cheap hobby, but it is a big part of one’s life, so for the friendships you enjoy, a price can’t be put on that.