Porto v Arsenal – Champions League Round of 16

I’m going to own up to have batted for Howe as a replacement for both Wenger and Emery back then but I’ve been seriously underwhelmed by his lack of ambition since striking it lucky getting the Bar Code gig at just the right time.
He’s playing small time football and I’m sure Saudi patience is likely to wear thin by the end of this season. They can’t do a Chelsea or Mancs with FFP starting to kick in but taking clean sheets and solid defence as a marker of progress has limited value and their brief UCL jaunt has shown.

Forget him. The atmosphere at the Ems was cracking yesterday, likely helped by the late start and also the two for one offer on prematch beers. I also felt there were more irregular attendees than normal in my section. With all the ballot nonsense these days they seem, no diss intended, more grateful to be there and more committed to playing their part. I’m enjoying new faces with more enthusiasm than the regulars institutionalised to the silent grumbling of a few years agom

Our experience with Chelsea cast offs had been unimpressive in the past but Jorginho is still quality and has showed his balon D’or- worthy class whenever he’s been called on. He was top notch last night, always secure in possession and knowing when to recycle simply and start again and when to play more progressively.

I don’t think Havertz will ever be a good finisher, it’s just not in his locker but strikes me as the sort of player that other players like to have on their team and other teams find hard work. He disrupts, he grafts, he gets into positions that enable other players. I never trusted he’d score that one on one but there was still plenty to enjoy.

Both of them are a credit to Arteta’s imagination, he saw what both could add to our team, both have fitted in. Some of us just let flashbacks of Gallas and Wilian direct our emotions.

Although, I’d still say Havertz was a little overpriced, I remember the Wenger days of being frustrated with the endless penny-pinching, Suarez, and focus on perceived “value” with the net spend merchants taking comfort on both. We used to rant about just getting the deals done. Things are different now. We act like a big club, we get the deals done and we get the players Tets targets. At least in terms of culture and how we operate, I see it as a positive. We’ve probably overpaid for quite a few of the squad but the results are a better squad and it’s not my money.

It was pleasing to see ESR get a decent run out and he looked like he really wanted to make something happen. We all wanted the same. I hope, think, he gets more minutes in the run in.

The crowd feeling deflated by their solitary goal speaks to where we’ve got. But most of us seemed okay with it being Willock who scored. Round of applause, he’s one of our own and from memory, we received a decent fee.

Not far to go but I think this squad is good enough to keep us chasing down that title.

Interesting thoughts on Havertz, and I can see where your views of Havertz’s disruptive play works for us.

I just don’t share the same views, as Havertz was not what we needed, still isn’t, and there were much better options when we paid double of what Havertz is worth in my humble opinion. It’s just that is my opinion. We needed an elite potential striker.

ESR is already proven to be a far superior player, is just one point that made Havertz purchase all the more unnecessary and pointless. Jorginho, also, now we have Rice can do a good job at 8, and again better than Havertz, which isn’t saying much for Havertz, I know, but sadly true.

£65m a tad overpriced? On what £250K+ a week. Do you honestly feel that Havertz represents good value at that price and has delivered on his price? A few goals against poor opposition that didn’t turn up. He’s missed more sitters than he’s scored.

Sorry Aitcho can’t see any reality with your Havertz views. I don’t have your prism from inside the Emirates where you get chance to witness off camera views, however, I do have a 153inch screen pushing 8K, but 4K more realistic from a HD signal. I get 980mbps download so streaming no issues. The picture is as clear as you see.

I don’t see what you can as a 180, but my picture is very detailed and clearer than what you’d see from distance across the pitch or down the other end. Swings & roundabouts. I get to watch replays at my own leisure afterwards while you are going to the Tolly.

That said, I envy your game time at the Emirates, as you said, the Emirates was rocking and in my EAVR room with its 17-speaker tech, the sound for me was probably equal to what you heard in the stadium only I can turn my sound up and have sound choices for improvement you’d expect from a £24K+ Trinnov processor. My room sound, the compression is kept in the room where as at the Emirates, it’s open for the sound to dissipate. Also, I use Line Source L3s from Wisdom for pure sound that far exceeds traditional Point Source.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFyPkZWGEPE

I’ve sectioned out Havertz to watch his utility play closely and he is disruptive but no more than Jesus in the deep lying role. Up top he’s useless for his price. Swings and misses too many times. Is aerially challenged and crumples with mere touches throwing hissy fits, and can’t tackle to save his life or without fouling.

Personally, if we’d have kept Balogun and Willock and not bought Havertz and others, as well as selling Eddie, we would not be having this convo and probably be top now with Pool looking up at us.

I’m ever hopeful for this season, and we have the squad, same as last season, but with the addition of the indestructible Rice and immovable at 6. Partey hasn’t been missed compared to last season.

The Arteta imagination you mention here is really copied Pep’s game. That, and stubbornly playing players until they drop while overlooking the quality of his Hale Enders with ESR & Nwaneri both deserving starts and substitution time.

Never happen, Aitcho, because Arteta is in fact myopic and lacks youth trust, plus rarely playing players in their best positions vision.

Klopp, on the other hand, shows us all along with Pep, how to blood youth players, and save the club money to buy its real needs, such as a 20+ goal 9 instead of Arteta’s marionette Havertz is.

Always good to see you here, Aitcho.

Tony
Havertz basic wage is north of the figure you quoted – with win and appearance bonuses added he is the highest paid player at AFC.
The Chelsea negotiating team couldn’t believe the ease in selling the player at their starting point as they were expecting to go down by some way.
Because he is a El B favourite his place in the team is assured.

Norg
I imagine all clubs feel like Chelsea when negotiating with Garlick & co. In the Amazon series in Edus office I think they talked about what Arteta wanted in ridding the club of Auba and it was done with such flippant attitude as the millions we were going to lose.

I could never get my head round the club is run and in such a wasteful way for money and talent.

In 5 years how much will a PL title have cost us? Assuming we can topple Liverpool. Then add hat to Wenger’s deceitful way he didn’t buy for self preservation. It was ok to not spend and fail so long as there was CL income.

Are we back in that same boat With Arteta and Josh? 2 fools golden boys this far……..

Tony
Stan has had an easy life on his way to his billions. His in laws provided the market for him to receive guaranteed income. The Waltons will never invest in his sport investments but they do contract valuable Mall space.
On his first visit to Highbury Stan noticed the fans holding posters showing their adoration of Wenger – he turned to Josh and said ‘we need to keep hold of this guy’. Over the next few years IG was desperate to get rid of Wenger and spent time with Klopp & Pep but Stan would not agree to a change – until it was too late.
Now we Wenger Mk II. His age dictates his enthusiasm but he mirrors Wenger in his stubbornness. El B hasn’t yet surrounded himself with a complete set of ‘yes’ men – the day he does will be the start of the slippery slope.

Tony, I expect we’re agreed on our need for an elite striker the only questions are who and for how much. With Toney at 90+m as a bench mark I’m not sure the handful, maybe less, of strikers who fit the bill were realistically attainable.

Jesus, Havertz and goals spread around the team seem a sensible compromise given our numbers this season. Even if we were to bring in a straight not there’s always the possibility of a negative effect on our overall game. Thinking of R9 at ManU or even the fears over Haaland before he arrived at City. Its not an unreasonable consideration if we’re going to put up in the £100m plus region.

We’ve spent years bemoaning the lack of spend, I’m not going to get upset over perceived waste. The only question I have is whwther a player improves the team. If they do, it’s not a waste. When we dumped Auba and Ozil at a loss very few of us wanted them to stay, the only issue was the financial. But we were better off without them at that point in time. Job done.

Going back to Havertz, he’s a different player to Jesus although I think Jesus might be the better finisher, it’s close. I’m tempted to think of him as Giroud type, never going to put up fantastic numbers but brings a lot to the team he plays for. I agree, I wouldn’t pay what we did or put him on the wages we have but then, I grew up with GG and his no superstars here or Wenger and his penny pinching, value is hardwired into me.

Your audio and pics probably come close to matching my experience but theres no way having seen what we’ve both seen over time that I could advocate for either Willock or Balogun as the players to take us forward. Over the years where I used to catch the odd youth game, I’d say the players who made it through are the ones who caugh the eye as potentials. The Willocks were decent. I fear Nketiah may have peaked at youth level, he looked a bully back then. If we can get Balogun money or close to it for him, I won’t complain. Nelson, Saka and ESR were obvious ones to watch. My son was lucky enough to get a selfie with him at a youth game a few years back with an eye on potential future bragging rights.

I don’t see not playing youths as a negative if we’re playing well and I’m unconvinced that chucking in Nwaneri in for playing youths’ sake is essential at this stage if we’ve spent all that money trying to assemble a title challenging squad. Again, I go back to the dog days of late Wenger, chucking it all away on a mystical project youth in a bid to look smarter than Fergie, save money or maybe both. How much Vela or Denilson did we need to see to work out they weren’t going to cut the mustard

Anyway, I hope you get to enjoy a thrilling run in with your set up, I don’t even know what half that stuff means but it sounds grand.

Aitcho
A lot of teams have all tried to emulate the young team that Fergie introduced. They all peaked at youth level at the same time and all went on to win international caps. Wenger trained youngsters to play the same way as his first team and in league cup and European dead rubber games they were introduced to the world. Some went on to have careers but others faded into obscurity. Only a few make it to the top and those that do can perform as well at a young age as their older team mates.
In my opinion Balogun will make it as he is starting to click in his new team. Eddie should have been the one we sold and not given a huge new contract which ultimately make him harder to sell at a decent price.
The youngsters that are clearly better should be afforded more opportunities especially when we are in a strong winning position. Why bring on Soares, a defender when you a 4-0 up and you have a hungry Nwaneri sitting on the bench.

Aitcho
Have you seen Nwaneri at the recent run in he had ?
Factor in that the fluency is achieved over a few games one plays with the team in a competition. In fact , I would say that’s what got Odegaard playing at his current level, having also seen Odegaard during his frustrating first spell of loan to us. Yes, that should help us understand what Nwaneri could be to us …..if El B Incopetente is not around

Hookah, I was at the Hammers game.
Nwaneri did look tidy, games like that are ideal to bring along youngsters. He could be all that to us but as you pointed out and we’ve all seen, there’s a lot in between where he is now and what we think he could achieve. I don’t think he’s ready to supplant our given starters right now as excited as we all are about his potential. I admit, I’ve seen a lot less of our recent crop of youngsters to identify who looks capable but we’ve all seen loads who looked amazing at youth level and never quite reached that top tier.

Odegaard had already shown his promise by the same age. That’s what prompted RM to jump in for him. He just neeed good management.

If we had more dead rubbers I’d have been all in for chucking in Nwaneri and would have loved to see Sweet and Heaven on the same pitch. One day.

I’d agree with you on Eddie, I think he’s peaked like I said. Balogun had a decent spell in an inferior league and we got decent money for him. It would have been silly to turn it down given our priorities.

I don’t think El B is an obstruction to EN’s progress, probably the opposite

Sorry, Hoopah

Cheers to all who held Aitcho accountable for his Havertz apologist commentary…even our MIT couldn’t honestly suggest that what we’ve seen thus far was the intended objective of this clearly boneheaded off-season move…many from within the fanbase have spoken for years about our need for more investment, especially when it comes to our recruitment practices, but when it goes horribly awry it has a trickle-down effect…not only does it hinder future investment, especially in the very position where the failure occured, it likewise has a stifling impact on the developmental process, which is what we witnessed when MA was shoehorning Willian into the lineup…to make matters worse, especially when you have a manager with an inlated/fragile ego, it’s incredibly unlikely that they will simply bench the player in question, even when that would serve the greater good, as they fear the obvious implications…so in the end it negatively impacts the product on the pitch, which is the most damning consequence…like I’ve said on mutliple occasions, this wouldn’t be so significant if MA hadn’t paid well above the number, from both a fees and wage perspective, as Havertz could be sold on or simply benched and there would still be ample monies in the coffers to seek a more viable solution…Cheers

Aitcho
I thought your synopsis of Eddie Howe was brilliant. I enjoyed reading that. Much more eloquent than me saying his face belonged on a Toby Jug!

The recent form has left me scratching my head as to why we were so god awful in Portugal. Ponderous, and tentative passing didn’t help but I wonder if the team has a mental block about performing away in Europe?

If we see only 80 percent of that first half performance against the Geordies, then we’ll surely have enough. I think it’s clear that Jorginho has to start. His presence makes Rice and the front 5 even more potent. I’m seldom caught up in the stats of games but the amount of touches we had in their penalty area in the first half must have been some kind of record.

Oh and thanks too for the description of the atmosphere in the ground. Clearly a night when the fans fully played their part as they always seem to do in away games.

We’re looking properly dominant at home again.

Interestingly I am being bombarded with e-mails from AFC at the moment (well quite a few) . I havent been a season ticket holder since the 92- 93 season and have only attended games when invited by friends or as a corporate guest.
I also have seen a fair number of away games as a corporate guest.
The e-mails range from the new training kit designed by an up & coming designer to availability of tickets etc.
Has there been a drop off in sales? The attendance figures have always differed from the actual number of people through the turnstiles.
Perhaps recessionary times are starting to take their toll though we must be a few months away from renewals.

KP
I would put the Porto performance down to ‘game plan’. All of the players surely couldn’t have chosen last Wednesday to have an off night. Perhaps they had too many custard tarts that were past their sell by date.

Pasteis de Nata….Even the stale ones probably knock chocolate éclairs into a clocked hat. I used to live in Lisbon about 15 minute’s walk from a place in Belem where they sold them.

Do you share the general confidence that we’ll prevail in the second game? I still have trauma from when Sporting Lisbon came and Amorim gave Tets a managerial masterclass.

Clocked? Cocked!

KP-I likewise agree, in the main, with Aitcho’s assessment of Howe…it appears that, much like our present manager, Howe’s unable to get the best out of his players when the pressure is on and tactical flexibility is required…the one advantage MA has had over Howe is that he inherited some vastly better prospects, even though if it were up to him several of these blue chippers might have been elsewhere by now…ironically Howe might have been better option here early on, if the youth project was in the offing from the get-go, as that seems more in-line with his MO, whereas MA would have been right in his wheelhouse with the Newcastle chequebook-based initiative…of course, Howe would have been a stop-gap hiring, due to his managerial limitations, but he might have shaved off a couple years from what has become a 6-7-year plan before getting suitably replaced by a better manager

been “a” better option

Trvl, ifs and ands. You’re making up things to get yourself worked up. Tets isn’t coaching Newcs and Howe isn’t here. We can only speculation how they would have fared.

The team’s doing well, Tets is the coach, it’s not complicated. We can berate the manager for wasting cash on Willian, and in fairness he’d put up good numbers the season before he joined, or we can move on. We can also get upset about Cedric or just be content he gets minimal game time.

Havertz adds something positive to the team, that’s all I ask of signings, value for money is for someone else to worry about. I don’t think the purchase of Havertz blocked us from signing Haaland, Mbappe or Oshimen so we don’t need to get worked up over his purchase.

You’ve used the product on the pitch as the indicator for the recruitment process. The product is good. It suggests the recruitment is good. Havertz is part of that.

NORG, the collections have become a regular thing. Some are decent and usually sell out. The Wrighty, Maharishi and women’s third kit, all sold out. All clubs rinse the fans these days. We’re not any different and sales seem to back up the Club’s confidence in our desire for more new stuff. I was miffed when they stopped doing home/away alternate years, then when third kits became a thing and now I see teams with fourth kits. I’m probably not the target market but clearly someone is.

I don’t think the emails are an indicator of drop off in tix sales. Trying to get extras for friends and family has become near impossible over the last two years, before Covid I could always bank on someone having spares to shift. Even the ladies team has a waiting list now and their games at the Ems have been record busting attendances too.

There’s a good buzz about the team, well see if the latest price hike has an effect come May.

I knew you would show your true colours as soon as I laid waste to your ridiculous Havertz banter…you really think that paying upwards of 70M, plus making him the highest paid player, has no impact whatsoever on our recuitment practices?…wake up and smell the coffee…you’re not worth my time because you constantly move the goalposts whenever things don’t fit your particular narrative, which is why you’re a perfect Kool-Aid crusader…as to my speculative comments regarding Howe/Arteta, I was simply stating that Howe seems to excel more when his locker room is chock full of potential up-and-comers, whereas Arteta clearly loves to throw money at a problem…unfortunately, he misses as much, if not more, than he hits

looks like Davies is leaving Bayern for Real, where he will play on a side with VJ, with Bellingham in the middle and Mbappe up top…like I said earlier, everyone else will be playing for second best in Europe…now there’s a team who understands when a window has closed and a new one needs to be opened, then they go all in

Trvl, if your ambition was to lay waste the facts are against you.

It doesn’t appear that the purchase of Havertz blocked any other potential signing, you’re indulging in make believe. Again.

Havertz adds value to the team, much like your former bete noires, Jorginho and Trossard, from the previous window. Accept the positives and move on.

If you’re speculating that we could have bought Mbappe, Bellingham, Davies and VJ, I’m not sure you’re in touch with the current market Trvl

Aitcho-facts are clearly not your forte, as we were a worse team, in certain key respects, than we were at the crucial halfway point of last season…after 19 games played, we had 10 more points(5 point lead in the standings), 4 more wins and had potted 9 more goals, yet MA still felt it pertinent to spend come January…unfortunately we failed to secure our top targets and had to settle for lesser options who didn’t really fit MA’s preferred script and/or get us our the proverbial hump…so why do you think, considering our inferior statistical numbers this season, we didn’t spend a plug nickel this January, when expectations were even higher, in light of our off-season spending spree and the still fresh memories of our cocking up late last season?…keeping in mind that the myth about our potentially debilatating FFP issues were being greatly exaggerated by every apologist blogger/media-type, just in case MA couldn’t convince Kroenke to dip his hand in his own pocket for once…regardless, if we hadn’t wasted so much on Havertz in the summer, which was clearly a luxury buy, we would have undoubtedly had the resources to make a significant move in the winter window and any excuses related to FFP or the like would have fallen on deaf ears

unfortunately, albeit not surprisingly, you’re responses reek of recency bias…to even suggest that our half measure/luxury buys have turned our proverbial tide belies logic…the fact that Jorginho has the odd influential performance or that Havertz actually appeared to contribute something in a one-sided victory against a lethargic opponent, in no way justifies these purchases…I dare you to even suggest that if we had simply kept Xhaka, then bought Rice and Timber, our present position in the standings would have been any different…in fact, we would likely be in better stead, with ample monies to spend in the last window

furthermore, I didn’t suggest that we could have acquired all 4 players in question, but if we were a serious team, with a serious world-class manager, I have no doubt in my mind that the likes of Davies and Bellingham wouldn’t have been out of our reach…do you really believe that if we had a Pep or Klopp at the helm these players wouldn’t seriously contemplate coming our way if monster offers and wages were in the offing? as for Mbappe, your managerial overlord, just a week or so ago, spoke specifically about him being on our recruitment radar…so are you suggesting that he’s as daft as you’re implying that I am? all in all, I guess it’s back to the kid’s table for you, where short pants and nonsensical talk are all the rage

Trvl
Too many ifs and ands in comments. Imagination and speculation are your forte.

Three points off top. Beaten both the top two. Knock outs of UCL. These are good metrics. Try smiling.

Tvrl, your talent ID is in bits. Jorgie, he’s played in our biggest wins this season and played well. Because he’s a good player. To pick up a balon D’or contender for less than 20 mill is shrewd in anyones book.

No, he didn’t block us from siging Messi.

Leo was cheap as well, he’s also delivered.

You might not like them because they’re not (insert mythical transfer here) but they’re good players.

Raya is an upgrade. Not a dramatic one, I concede but my needs are simple, I prefer upgrades. You should top.

More often than not, our transfers are working out now. Don’t let the fact we didn’t steal Messi from under Miami’s nose or whatever imagined transfer you think they blocked cloud your vision.

Cheers

we may be third but with our spend we should be. Klopp has Liverpool at No 1 having spent less. There are over achievers and under achievers – is El B the generational talent some say?

Norg
El B is overachieving failure with an exorbitant price tag so as to make his tomfoolery impressive. So Havertz at 65 m , but an atrocious wake of 250 per week with add -ons . That last shit takes the cake and makes Havertz unsellable .

Hoopah
It is the business model of AFC. Pay good to middling players super star contracts that nobody else can afford.
What must Saka think when he is playing on the pitch. ‘That guy who just fluffed a scoring opportunity I gave him will earn £100K mor than me this week’. Havertz will be the breeder of discontent unless all the other players are brought into line.

New post.