Derby Day

Herb I was similar to you at around 2008/9 I started having serious doubts which turned into knowing Wenger had run his race with us and was time for new thinking. The best of the Wenger era was over but Wenger had maintained his power grip on the club.

Almunia, I was waiting for the NLD to see if the Manure loss was Arteta fluffing his lines more than us being found out. Brentford was a good indicator that the old fragility under Wenger had been banished. The Spuds game confirmed we have some work to do with our mental resolve after we let a goal in as we did on Sunday. That last 15 if the 1st half was a concern that I hope we don’t repeat.

Said a while ago that Mane was the wrong player for Klopp to lose; Salah should have gone. By the sound of it Klopp had no choice: Mane wanted Germany. I haven’t worked it out why TA and Robinson form have dropped so much either. VVD is mistake prone now when under pressure and Martinelli & Jesus kicking in after burners running at VVD and Matip is the stuff epsom salts are made from. Our lads will weaken their colons far more than they’d care to admit, especially with Ode, Saka and Xhakaino sniffing around for rebounds and mistakes.

Wouldn’t surprise me if we don’t get another 3:1 win securing all 3 points because we have bounce-back ability in our locker now, intelligent, collective high pressing, playing on the front foot with tempo.

We can and should beat anyone at home now including City. All we really have to concentrate now is our away form.

Let’s hope Mikel buys wisely in the Jan TW.

Herb
I’ve always shared your view that we’re soft relative to the other two legitimately successful big boys in English football. For instance, all those title wins in the 90s and 00s, it would always become apparent early in the following season that we were neither equipped nor had the intention of looking to retain the title. It almost looked like the club saying, ‘we’ve done it but don’t expect there to be another one anytime soon. After 89,i don’t think GG was offered any more funds by the board to replace certain players nor increase the squad in order to mount a serious challenge in Europe. That early exit to Benfica was a grim reminder of our mortality.

I know it’s not popular to say so, but our fans partly bear responsibility. Arsenal supporters as a group have never been as passionate and demanding as Manure and Liverpool equivalents. In essence, we’re huge underachievers.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2022/oct/04/david-squires-on-going-to-the-match-2022-ls-lowry

Changing tack slightly – and for those that don’t read the UK guardian, here’s David Squires’s take on the modern football experience which us unerringly accurate. I love the half/half scarf and the reference to that Brian and Michael tune about Lowry. If you like it, he does a regular cartoon every midweek capturing the ‘zeitgeist’ (wish I had more chance to use poncey German words like that!)

Herb,
I enjoyed your posts,thanks for sharing. They are revealing and realistic even though they are confirming a somewhat pessimistic perspective of Arsenal that many of us fear is accurate,we are not a club who prioritise success on the pitch. Your summary of Wenger leaving the club in a worse state than he found it is a pretty brutal one after all Wenger achieved but I’ve made that same argument myself many times. Ultimately the man destroyed his own legacy which was painful to watch. I also agree with you Kroenkephobe, the fan base has to take its share of the blame. We are not vocal enough to demand better in the way utd and pool fans do. It’s frustrating and difficult to fathom. A fascinating study awaits the person who investigates the psychology of those who throw their lot in with Arsenal! Loved the Squires cartoons, he has a real artist’s eye hasn’t he?
Tony, Liverpool are really struggling and as you suggested it’s epitomised by VVD’s loss of form. Still wouldn’t put money on an Arsenal win though, scouser scars run deep! Am looking forward to seeing Thursday’s game,really hoping marquinhos gets a start,would love to see more of him. Eddie could do with a run out too. Pity ESR can’t avail of the minutes,maybe another look at Vieira?

Almunia
Agreed about Thursday. Barring any slips it should be a fun game and a chance to become an amateur scout for the night. I’m quite hopeful about Marquinhos – he looks and plays like someone in their mid to late 20s. He gives off a string vibe that he’s humble and keen to learn. If he’s mentored properly, God knows how good he could be at that age. We might even catch sight of the lesser spotted Nelson.

Cardiff home to Blackburn tonight but watching this one on the box.

Surprised that Blackburn managed to hold on to the Chilean guy,Diaz,thought for sure he’d move up a level. Watching pool rangers here on terrestrial tv, pool playing well but this rangers team are no relation to the one that got to the europa final. Scousers might get a confidence boost here. TAA has already scored a fabulous free kick. In Ireland if either utd or Liverpool are playing then that is the match televised. Hasn’t bothered me too much in the last few years but when Arsenal clashed with them it used to drive me mad. One year they still showed utd when their last game was a dead rubber and Arsenal were in a do or die final game. Gobshites. It’s early days obviously and Klopp is a master at extracting the maximum from players but that Nunez is looking more Andy Carroll mark 2 every time I see him. Klopp is entitled to the odd mistake but Christ that’s an expensive one isn’t it?

Another great late show for the bluebirds Kroenkephobe, Robinson with the assist. That league is a quagmire isn’t it?
Liverpool flattered to deceive ultimately tonight. Salah is a pale shadow of his former self and nunes,Diaz and jota were very ordinary. No doubt Firminio will start against us,he’s probably the greatest threat,always seems to play well against us.
Interesting to see if there’s any reaction against Simeone at Athletico. Another really poor night for them. The man is a God over there but standards seem to be dropping fast. He was someone I was screaming for when Wenger had stopped competing. A natural born winner. His football isn’t particularly digestible though and I think I’d prefer to do without now.

Leave you guys with this one. Incident during Forest v Arsenal 1979. God I love the Cloughie stories!
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMFFD6rdd/

Hi Almunia
The championship continues to astound. There ought to be no reason why it produces so much drama but it almost never lets you down. Cardiff bossed possession in the first half but created nothing serious. Game drifting away til Harris bangs in a beautiful first timer. No danger of an equaliser til injury time when the ref blows for a Blackburn pen a second before they score! The pen is saved and Cardiff win. And I’ll be off to Wigan (a 400 mile round trip in a beat up but economical Peugeot!) at 8am on Saturday with one of the kids…

Good to know Nunez continues to underwhelm. He’s likely to be judged against Haaland in perpetuity now. Poor kid.

Almunia – I know Manure and Liverpool are by far the most supported English clubs over there. It’s the same throughout Wales. Is it a 50-50 split of numbers or is Liverpool a slightly bigger draw because of historical links. We’ve talked about this before but I hated wandering around Highbury on match days and seeing kids wearing their colours instead of ours.

Great clip Almunia. Hilarious. That’s one of the best stories I’ve heard about BC. Fair dos to Pat as well for carrying the letter around in his jacket all those years (which is almost equally as eccentric). 👍

I didn’t realise the Cardiff game had ended in such drama,all the sweeter for that isn’t it?
I’m going to stereotype now but in general utd fans over here attached themselves to the club during the Fergie years. They tend to be people for whom football supporting is a part time hobby. Their ignorance was matched only by their arrogance. They were a massive clan back in the day but typical of the glory hunters most have disappeared now.
Liverpool fans are far more loyal,knowledgeable and numerous. Incredibly they are actually more arrogant also. Their rebirth under Klopp has been a painful reminder for those of us who suffered them in the 80’s what a shower of knows they can be.
Other clubs are also supported such as villa and Everton with a special mention to a very healthy contigent of Leeds fans. Arsenal fans are not rare but are a small minority nonetheless. Neither City nor Chelsea have made any impression over here at all so at least when they win trophies there are no braggarts to contend with.

Really good to read your reminiscing through the decades. Some I remember, much I don’t, so it makes even better reading. Best I can offer is I lived opposite Chris Armstrong in his Palace days where Palace was a fun ground to be in back in the 90s.

Chris a huge Gooner did the unthinkable and joined the Spuds. He was a cool guy and fellow music lover and all that goes with audio enhancements. His first Xmas & New Years eve with The Spuds he got permission to have dinner with me plus 1, so long as he was asleep by midnight.

Safe to say Chris after doing snow angels on my driveway; he was indeed in deep slumber by midnight still on my driveway. Nepalese temple balls will do that to you after a few bottles of chianti & Tequila.

Needless to say Chris had a game to forget and I got the blame and it was his Temple balls.

You had to feel for Chris looking back as he was from Cardiff I think, and was spotted playing in for a local team Wales while he was a shelf packer at a supermarket or cannery or some such factory.

Nice lad with a sharp mind, but slow, soft, deep voice that often made people think he wasn’t as quick thinking as he really was. I’d long moved away before Chris failed a drug test for cannabis.

Seemed all paradoxical as some players were alcoholics and that was brushed under the carpet until laws got broken. Now cannabis is being made legal in more countries and states in countries including Thailand.

Alcohol and Tobacco WILL kill people particularly the latter. But, only a few percentile get paranoid psychosis who probably had such weakness in them before.

Living in Holland back in the late 80s taught me a lot about many things.

K’phobe I had another thought to solve your music listening in general and that would be to talk to a guy like Nathan Funk of Funk Audio. He custom makes electrics and speakers. Maybe once you know your limitations in more detail speakers with presets geared to your personal needs could be made.

https://www.funkaudio.ca

https://www.stereophile.com – is my go to to do research.

AVS is good for most audio reviews and was where I was directed to check out Wisdom by my friend.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-official-wisdom-audio-thread.3179600/#post-60413690

It’ll give you as deep a breakdown on Line source as you want to go and fascinating.

Tony
Great story. Nepalese temple balls with Chris Armstrong! In my resinous naivety, I had to look up what they were as this image of Thai love beads loomed in my mind! I liked him at Palace and wonder if his time slightly crossed over with Ian Wright (although I recall IW’s main partner as Mark Bright). It speaks volumes about your larger-than-life image Tony that he needed to get Spurs’s permission to ostensibly go on a surreptitious bender chez toi.

I don’t think there’d ever be an anecdote like that on LG or Unsold Anusol except maybe a story from Rich about giving economic advice to Paul Gascoigne or Nigel Tufnell offering pearls of wisdom to Vinny Jones about anger management.

Get one of your kids to get their laptop out and start dictating your memoirs mate!

Almunia
I really enjoyed that insight into who and why Irish fans follow certain teams. I imagine we had a far bigger presence in the late 70s.

We were just neighbors both Gooners with similar interests. We’d often go out for dinner after games. The club obviously thought couple of neighbors having some food and drinks on New Years Eve, what could possibly go wrong? He’s live in gf, Joy was half his size but we managed to get Chris up and in his house and made sure Joy set the alarm.

Told him he’d be golden in the morning, which of course he wasn’t.

Wrighty had already left for George Graham and Chris had his heart on following Wrighty to Arsenal. I think he was supposed to take over sick note Anderson’s place, and be the new coming of Hoddle.

Hi Almunia, KP, Tony and all who frequent.

I should correct my maths before I go on.
Fergie was stopped eight times between 1993-2013, Blackburn, Arsenal (3), Chelsea (3), and City, so apologies, it is 13 titles in 21 years.
KP – I think you summed it up with the whole casual mentality running through the club, and the passive compliance of the fan base to accept, and at points celebrate mediocrity. The Arsenal hierarchy have always appeared aloof with their fans, but with the media too, and it has always been good sport for them to poke Arsenal and make fun of their ‘eccentricity’. Surely, at some point you have to stop supplying ammunition.
Nice to see you rewarded for your long trip to Cardiff and beating a very decent Blackburn side. When you look where clubs like Middlesbrough, West Brom, Stoke, Coventry etc are, it shows just how fiercely competitive the Championship is, and looking down in League One where there’s the likes of Bolton, Ipswich, Derby and Sheffield Weds, so many fallen giants of our national sport struggling.
Almunia – When you asked me to link the current failures with historical decisions I had no idea it would be so long, please accept my apologies.
None of us want to live in constant misery regarding Arsenal, the club and supporters have had some great moments, but we all know there could and should have been many more.
The stark difference between us and Liverpool fans is that they start most seasons legitimately dreaming of conquering the world and a 7th CL trophy, Arsenal fans HOPE the club finish top four to make the numbers up in CL. We are world’s apart, Arsenal fans have been conditioned to dream extremely conservatively.
As Liverpool and United are traditionally predominantly working class areas, I’ve often wondered if it’s something attributed to social class.
I shall endeavor to be more optimistic in my overall view of Arsenal, but I make no promises!
Tony – Great story about Chris Armstrong! You still haven’t told me what you disagreed with me about on LG.

Tony
The story gets even better. If we ever had a big night out – BKK would be a better destination than West Wales I can assure you – I think I’d also believe your advice about being right as rain in the morning. I think I knew from before that you were born in Embra. We’re your family Hibees or Jambos?

I shall endeavor to be more optimistic in my overall view of Arsenal, but I make no promises

Hi Herb
Turd polishing our history is something I reckon you’d never do. So you’re right not to make any promises. You know the subject matter too well for a start! The unalloyed truth is what distinguishes people on here from the mouth breathers and sycophants on LG.

In some respects, our image of relative softness, fairness and sportsmanship is a virtue at times. I’ve always allowed myself to feel morally superior to fans of other teams even when we’re not cutting it on the pitch. My last visit to the Emirates to see us beat Leeds in the Carabao last autumn was a feelgood event. Loads of people from N London of all ages and backgrounds all there to see us win.

Herb,
No apologies required,like Kroenkephobe said it’s the realism of your perspective that makes it so desirable. Club spin and blind faith are anathema to me at this stage. I too would love to have optimism flowing through my veins but not at the cost of being able to perceive the truth. For example,imagine if Arteta left us tomorrow and his work here was done. Look at what the history books would record in cold facts as his ‘achievements’ and the colossal spend required to secure them. Nobody would look on his reign at the club as being a successful appointment. Name one single manager in English footballing history who managed a club of Arsenal’s size and secured 8th,8th and 5th place finishes with unlimited funding that has gone into the annals as legendary? Yet here we are. According to many Arteta has now justified his appointment. We’ve got the right man. It’s all been worthwhile. The proof? We are top of the table in October. Yet no-one,including those who are celebrating this ‘achievement’ expects us to remain there. Indeed top 4 would still be considered a great season. Where is the perspective? Where is the context? Our rivals,bar city, are all out of form but Arsenal fans aren’t excited by the opportunity to win a title,they’re too busy telling us not to expect one!! To dare suggest a good manager would lead this squad into a 2 horse title race is considered unfair on Arteta,unreasonable to expect such a thing. You may actually be accused of not being a fan at all for ‘demanding’ the club compete,now,for the major honours. You would be labelled ‘entitled’.
When did we become Everton? Everything you said about the fans being conditioned to accept mediocrity is embodied by the hero worship of a manager who has yet to achieve anything of note. So no apologies Herb,you have the right of it as far as I’m concerned.

K’phobe, re your Hibbies or? Fan? Sadly I was a product of a 16-year-old Jewish ice skater in an ice dance company and a 40-year-old BBC producer. If you’re wondering why I’m not on any dance shows, It’s because I dance like Mr. Bean, but I am gifted with being able to frame video and pictures, editing etc, so some good came of it.

My bio-pop did a runner and I ended up with foster parents in the east end, soon after to be passed around in orphanages for 5 years. Bio-mum snared a 70-year-old Jewish millionaire 15 years later, but he had the last laugh by having no will and an ex-wife and daughter with claws and talons clashing for the money.

Eventually, I was adopted by an older couple with an ailing mum and a heavy-handed father with a thick belt and in dire need of anger management sessions. An only child in a family including the extended few who talked nothing else other than gardening. Their GOAT amounted to the likes of Alan Titchmarsh.

Not one relative liked sport! It was all roses, petunias and fucking gladioli et al.

I can assure you ADHD and gardening are a bad match. Nothing happens for days, weeks and sometime months. Cricket is my limit where my macabre side would want to prod a sloth with a live electric wire to see how fast it could actually move.

It was no wonder I was off at the first chance to find a world I fitted in and could choose my education and life’s challenges. I got the sex, drugs and rock and roll out of my system first, and then paid much more attention to making money with the odd relapse when being invaded by mad, elite musos or asked to go to LA to be with said musos to record a month of song writing.

Mine, like your life K’phobe, our lives have been extreme by ‘normal’ jobs, lives and 2.2 kids and wife. I have 2.0 kids. I never found out what the .2 was ever referred to or how that was normal? Were the ‘normal’ mad after all?

I’ve posted the lengths I’ve gone to, to be able to watch The Arsenal over 40+ years of no real base. Missing a game really hurt, especially if I couldn’t get to see the highlights.

So that’s a long-winded way of saying The Arsenal is my extent of my football life. Whatever league or cup we were involved in, I was fully invested in. I enjoy reading you all reminiscing, though.

Guess it’s funny how life runs in circles and now laws here for κάνναβις are relaxed to personal use and cultivating, I’m putting all my dad thumped into me into growing primo White Widow, Durban Poison and Malawi cob for Xmas & New Year. Has a certain irony to it growing my own medication because it’s a far better choice to Ritalin.

Of course, no one knew what ADHD was back then, so I was just deemed overactive who was into everything that was curious and seemingly annoying to all around me.

Back to today’s life and Junior and I watch 5 games over the weekend including our games. That is unless he’s away playing golf tournaments – more as practice against people older and more skilled. He’s away tomorrow, but back in time for our game Sunday.

BKK: LIR Gooner weekend sounds like a plan to me. http://www.saxophonepub.com is a place my wife and I frequent when in BKK. A Thai Ronnie Scotts, but more than jazz. Maybe time it when Arsenal do a pre-season here?

Herb, I think the topic of a disagreement was to do with the older establishment and not The Arsenal. I can’t remember now, but I think I was saying it was all old school tie and nepotism that formed the basis of who made our laws and enforced them. Whilst a stiff upper lip got us through 2 world wars, in peace time we needed a different more open minded, well experienced leadership.

It seemed to me that those who thought outside the box were ostrasised for not conforming and deemed “A bad Lot”! Now we have gone way too far to the other ‘woke’ side where frankly who is policing who?

It was never anything serious, just the rebel in me explaining my discord with the system at that time.

As China1 and I said before every country has its skeletons in its culture and sub cultures. The more I travelled when in my 20s onwards, the more I could see I wasn’t a good fit for living in the UK. Nomadic life suited me. It was a where-ever-I-laid-my-hat existence working with differing cultures that suited me perfectly and my thirst for new knowledge each country and experience offered.

By the time I was 40 I knew I wanted to live in S E Asia including Japan.

A comfortable 3-0 win tonight. Eddie Unket Marquinhos and Vieira with a goal apiece.

Tony
Seriously mate, that memoir would sell like hot (dope) cakes. Mine is much more prosaic but I’ve had some interesting moments in foreign climes…

I spat my tea out reading your comment about Alan Titchmarsh. TV Gardeners and TV chefs would all neatly fit within a larger circle in a
Venn diagram called ‘famous twats’.

I’m really looking forward to tonight’s game. Should be fun. Although I won’t be thinking that if it’s anything other than a win.

Almunia
That’s me and one of the (Arsenal and Cardiff mad) twins booked on the road to Wigan Pier. Orwell would be proud. Well, the DW Stadium to be accurate where we’re hoping to see the Bluebirds get the full 3 points. I’ll do a review of the pies and pints for LiR. Big plus is it won’t affect my Arsenal weekend – I missed the Spuds and Brentford games. I’m becoming a glory hunting plastic fan…

K’phobe the game is 2am for us so looks like highlights in the morning. CL is no problem I can record it for the morning, but no EL here on satellite. Will be great to see the new gen playing. Read earlier Patino had another game with the manager full of praises for him. Azeez is doing well also. In about 18 months we’ll be spoilt for MF’s choice.

Enjoy the game guys.

No sign of Nwaneri tonight… Makes me think there were ulterior motives for bringing him on at Brentford. A persuader to sign a youth contract perhaps?

Tonight’s selection a bit odd.

Holdinhooooooooooogol

Why tf is he making those subs? What on earth is the rationale to bring on those 3 at this stage?